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Text File | 1993-07-27 | 13.6 KB | 334 lines

$Unique_ID{bob01215} $Pretitle{} $Title{Nixon Tapes, The April 16, 1973. (4:07pm - 4:35pm)} $Subtitle{} $Author{Various} $Affiliation{} $Subject{john dean nixon pres right inaudible unintelligible that's told bob} $Date{1974} $Log{} Title: Nixon Tapes, The Author: Various Date: 1974 April 16, 1973. (4:07pm - 4:35pm) Meeting: President Nixon and John Dean, EOB Office Pres. Nixon: Hi, John. John Dean: Mr. President. Pres. Nixon: Well, have you had a busy day? John Dean: Yeah, I have been - I spent most of the day on trying to put together a statement that I think you could come out - apparently some other people have done some work on - I haven't been working with them. Presumably we are all kind of driving at the same point. I was working on a draft when you called. Pres. Nixon: Listen, I've got to see Rogers in just a few minutes so let me have (unintelligible) John Dean: Well, I think - I was calling Dick Moore in on it, but Dick is working on it with these others. Pres. Nixon: That's good. What would be best? Rather than giving it to me piecemeal, why don't you put one together? John Dean: It's got a strong thrust which puts you - Pres. Nixon: (unintelligible) John Dean: There is a tough question here - the degree of biting the bullet right at this hour. Now there is one paragraph - Pres. Nixon: There is a question of timing - John Dean: It is a question of timing but it is also a question - I have one paragraph in here that says what you are doing as a result of what has come to your attention and some of the things that Petersen has told you. Pres. Nixon: Uh, huh. John Dean: And one of the points is that it provides that all members of the White House staff will be called before the Grand Jury effective immediately. They will be on administrative leave until such time as the Grand Jury completes its work. Now here is the tough paragraph thus far: "In this connection, I have not spared my closest staff advisers and included in this action are H.R. Haldeman, Assistant to the President, John Ehrlichman, Assistant to the President, and John Dean, Counsel to the President." Now you can do that or leave that out and let them guess who is on administrative leave. Pres. Nixon: Anybody called before the Grand Jury? John Dean: That's right. That means that no man - Pres. Nixon: You can bite the bullet on Dean, Haldeman, and Ehrlichman until then, huh? On the other hand, if (unintelligible) is lying - have you talked to (unintelligible) John Dean: No, I haven't. Pres. Nixon: I have a sensation that he is lying right now but the trouble with that is there might be some confusion. Petersen says, incidentally, on your letter - he thinks it is probably better to get a letter in hand and get the grievances out. Pres. Nixon: I said, "Well, what do you think about it? I was considering your returning and I don't want to do anything to jeopardize your rights. He feels (a) that he wants to clear it. But he is not recommending it. - John Dean: Uh, huh. Pres. Nixon: He said - "Stand fast (unintelligible) However, public prosecution would not be harmful to an individual, you know, if we had the resignation in hand so we could act on it. (inaudible) other than let me say - let me see what you had in mind. John Dean: I have a letter - Pres. Nixon: I don't care about the letter but I thought it was fair - fair to everybody. (Inaudible) John Dean: I wrote: "Dear Mr. President: Inasmuch as you have informed me that John Ehrlichman and Bob Haldeman have verbally tendered their requests for immediate and indefinite leave of absence from the staff, I declare I wish also to confirm my similar request as having accepted a leave of absence from the staff." Well, I think there is a problem - Pres. Nixon: You don't want to go if they stay - John Dean: There is a problem for you of the scapegoat theory. Pres. Nixon: You mean making use of it. John Dean: That's right. Pres. Nixon: Like Magruder being the scapegoat for Mitchell? John Dean: That's right. You know, everybody is appearing before the Grand Jury. This does not impute guilt on anybody. Pres. Nixon: Let me put it this way I think rather (unintelligible) I could say that you, as Counsel - that you have been responsible for the investigation. We already have said that about this case haven't we? John Dean: That's right. The only man you are dealing with and the only role 1 have is to help fill in any information I can to deal with the Public Relations of the problem. You know - Pres. Nixon: You can say it that way John. You can say the President sought your advice until it is cleared up. John Dean: That's right. Pres. Nixon: (unintelligible) I don't know that the letter (inaudible) and that goes out ahead, frankly, of the Magruder-Mitchell hitch doesn't it? John Dean: That's right. I wasn't counting on that - Pres. Nixon: We haven't made a deal with Magruder's lawyers yet. Magruder is turning from the Ervin Committee on Judge Sirica - John Dean: (Unintelligible) Pres. Nixon: I don't want you to talk to anybody else, understand? Except for (unintelligible) John Dean: I am not doing any investigative work or - Pres. Nixon: Well, that's right. (unintelligible) John Dean: Well, I turned that off three weeks ago. Pres. Nixon: Good. You haven't done any since three weeks ago? John Dean: That's right. Pres. Nixon: You haven't done any since March 21st? John Dean: Let me check back and see. John Dean: Necessity of the overall problems of the White House. Looks like we both talked to them about that. Pres. Nixon: Yes - yes it does. Tell me what you last talked with Haldeman about. John Dean: That Bob would like Dean to be the fiat to testify. It is very painful for me. (Inaudible) Pres. Nixon: (Inaudible) One thing you should all (inaudible) - Did Dean know? Did Haldeman know? Did Ehrlichman know? You may know. He said "Dean came over to Haldeman after that and told him about the plans for GEMSTONE." Pres. Nixon: (Unintelligible) says you're right . . . His point being that actually Haldeman then did know. John Dean: No sir, I disagree with that interpretation - Pres. Nixon: I didn't know, but if that was the case you see John then - I would have to - Dean would have told me something. John Dean: No, because I have always put it to you exactly that, way because Bob has told me he didn't know. Now I know I didn't know but I feel - Pres. Nixon: What about this conversation? (inaudible) If this had happened, wasn't Bob responsible for telling me? John Dean: I think what happened is probably this - everyone assumed that John Mitchell would never have approved anything like this. I told him I was not going to have further dealings with Liddy or anybody over there on this and I didn't. I didn't have the foggiest notion what they were doing. Pres. Nixon: That's what you told me, you know. (inaudible) John Dean: Well, Bob tells me he did not know. Now I know the question is - the other thing is - I cannot, I couldn't describe twenty minutes after the meeting what Liddy was presenting was the most spectacular sales pitch you have ever seen in codes and charts and (unintelligible) operations. Pres. Nixon: You mean Gemstone? John Dean: Well, that is what I am told now later after the fact they called it. I told Bob, "They are talking about bugging. They are talking about kidnapping. They are talking about mugging squads, taking people south of the border in San Diego, etc." Pres. Nixon: What did Bob say? John Dean: He said, "Absolutely NO." Pres. Nixon: You will so testify? John Dean: That is right - absolutely. I don't know - I assumed - Bob has never told me anything to the contrary so I thought that nothing happened from the time of that meeting where he told me, "Don't do anything about it. You are to stay away from it. Don't talk to Hunt and Liddy." I said to Liddy, "I am never going to talk to you about this again, Gordo." So what I thought was that inaction was the result - of their not having b produced something reasonable. Second, I don't know - Pres. Nixon: You didn't get hold of Mitchell on it did you? John Dean: I don't have the record on that - Pres. Nixon: Magruder says that - but - (inaudible) Then I see. Your statement is consistent with what you told me before. I wish you would tell (unintelligible) that Haldeman said, "Absolutely not." John Dean: That's right. Bob and I have gone over that after the fact and he recalls my coming to the office and telling him about this crazy scheme that was being cooked up. Pres. Nixon: Do you want to go and get together - John Dean: I will work on this statement - they want to have something to (unintelligible) that they are going to go before the Grand Jury. Pres. Nixon: Bill Rogers. We are going to have him available. Everyone needs help. None of us can really help another I really believe. John Dean: That's right. All I am trying to think is how we can get you out from under. Pres. Nixon: That's right. I tried to talk today about social issues, etcetera, and everyone is just interested in the Watergate Issue. My days are too short - John Dean: Something about Magruder - they are going to take him to the courts. Pres. Nixon: I know - he has agreed to (inaudible) John Dean: I can't forsee what we would want to say about any investigation - Pres. Nixon: "You see I make my own" How about trying that? "Let the White House Staff (inaudible)" John Dean: Unfortunately it doesn't solve; your problem. Mine bother me but (unintelligible) Mitchell was making heavy comments that Liddy and Hunt will make heavier problems for the White House that, he will. (unintelligible) John Dean: Poor Bud Krogh is so miserable. Knowing what he knows - Pres. Nixon: Need any help with him? John Dean: There is no reason that he should be. The only evidence that they have (inaudible) John Dean: It just got forced on him. When I was first talking to him - "Run these guys through the Grand Jury -" To be very honest with you, I have talked about it around here before I got in to see for many, many months. Then I thought I could not let it interfere with my work anymore so I thought I might as well forget It. Pres. Nixon: That's right. That's when you came in to see me. Finally, that is when I came in to see you and got some answers. John Dean: Now, they have their full investigation going - with subpoena power, investigative power, etcetera. It is all like a set of dominoes if one goes they will all go. Pres. Nixon: Secretaries, etcetera John Dean: I don't know (unintelligible) They are going to handle Ehrlichman and Haldeman. There is a potential prima facie situation right now (inaudible) which thereby makes it necessary for you to make a judgment that those people should leave the staff. Pres. Nixon: Make it necessary for me to relieve them from any duties at this state. John Dean: That's right. Pres. Nixon: I don't have to discuss it with him - but just say, "You are all out" John Dean: That is a tougher question because one that is putting you in the position of being the judge of the entire facts before all the facts are in necessarily. Pres. Nixon: That is really my problem in a nutshell. So those fellows say that - this fellow says that - John Dean: Maybe that is the way this ought to be handled. You say, I have heard information about allegations about (inaudible) some publicly and some have not become public yet. I am not in a position to judge because all the facts are not in yet (inaudible)? Pres. Nixon: (Inaudible) But you agree, John, don't you that the statement is fair to everybody? And frankly - (Balance inaudible - door closes.)