Multimedia Mania/abacus-multimedia-mania.iso/dp/0121/01216.txt

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$Unique_ID{bob01216}
$Pretitle{}
$Title{Nixon Tapes, The
April 16, 1973. (8:58pm - 9:14pm)}
$Subtitle{}
$Author{Various}
$Affiliation{}
$Subject{nixon
pres
peterson
dean
get
right
mitchell
haldeman
huh
yes}
$Date{1974}
$Log{}
Title:       Nixon Tapes, The
Author:      Various
Date:        1974

April 16, 1973. (8:58pm - 9:14pm)

Telephone conversation:  President Nixon and Henry Petersen

Pres. Nixon:  Mr. Petersen please, Assistant Attorney General.  Henry
               Petersen.

Operator:  Oh, Henry Petersen.

Pres. Nixon:  Hello

H. Peterson:  Yes, Mr. President.

Pres. Nixon:  Did you get out with your kids?

H. Peterson:  Sort of.  We got together with them.

Pres. Nixon:  That's good.

H. Peterson:  They all just hollered, the President is calling, right at the
               nose at nine o'clock.

Pres. Nixon:  Well, I wanted to get you in bed earlier tonight than last
               night, and I want to get to bed too.  Let me say first, I just
               want to know if there are any developments I should know about
               and, second, that of course, as you know, anything you tell me,
               as I think I told you earlier, will not be passed on.

H. Peterson:  I understand, Mr. President.

Pres. Nixon:  Because I know the rules of the Grand Jury.

H. Peterson:  Now - LaRue was in and he was rather pitiful.  He came down with
               O'Brien and said he didn't want private counsel at all.  He
               just wanted to do what he did.  He told John Mitchell that it
               was "all over."

Pres. Nixon:  He said he had told John Mitchell that?

H. Peterson:  Yes, He, LaRue, admits to participating in the (unintelligible)
               and obstruction of justice.  He admits being present, as Dean
               says he was, at the third meeting, bud act meeting, but -

Pres. Nixon:  Who was present at that meeting Henry?  I don't know.

H. Peterson:  He and Mitchell.

Pres. Nixon:  He and Mitchell alone?

H. Peterson:  And he says, ah -

Pres. Nixon:  LaRue and Mitchell?  I didn't - that must be a meeting I seemed
               to have missed.  Dean was not there at that meeting?

H. Peterson:  Dean tells us about it.  Now I am not quite certain whether Dean
               was present or not.  That meeting was down in Florida.

Pres. Nixon:  Oh, some - oh, I heard about a meeting, but I think you told me
               about that.

H. Peterson:  He is reluctant to say at this point that Mitchell specifically
               authorized the budget for the electronic eavesdropping at that
               point.  But I think he is going to come around.  He is just so
               fond of John Mitchell.  He admits that it could not have been
               activated without Mitchell's approval, however.

Pres. Nixon:  Uh, huh.

H. Peterson:  O'Brien, they didn't get to.  Strachan called back around five
               o'clock and said he was having difficulty in getting a lawyer.
               He finally got a lawyer.  Colson's law partner.

Pres. Nixon:  Oh?  Colson's law partner?

H. Peterson:  The United States' Attorney's office took issue with this, and
               threatened to go to the Judge on a conflict then he -

Pres. Nixon:  Got another one?

H. Peterson:  Got another lawyer.  He'll be back tomorrow.

Pres. Nixon:  All you got to today was LaRue?

H. Peterson:  That's right.  Now, the other additional information from -

Pres. Nixon:  LaRue said he had told Mitchell that it was all over?

H. Peterson:  Yes.

Pres. Nixon:  When did he do that?

H. Peterson:  Just recently.  Today, yesterday or the day before.

Pres. Nixon:  I see.

H. Peterson:  You know, he had thrown in the sponge.

Pres. Nixon:  I get it.

H. Peterson:  We talked earlier today about Ehrlichman.  Now a little
               additional detail on that.

Pres. Nixon:  Uh, huh.

H. Peterson:  Liddy confessed to Dean on June 19th - Dean then told
               Ehrlichman.

Pres. Nixon:  Liddy confessed that he did the deal, or what?

H. Peterson:  That he was present in the Watergate.

Pres. Nixon:  Uh, huh.

H. Peterson:  Ah, then you also asked about Colson.  Colon and Dean were
               together with Ehrlichman when Ehrlichman advised about Hunt to
               get out of town and thereafter -

Pres. Nixon:  Colson was there?

H. Peterson:  Colson was there so he is going to be in the Grand Jury.  With
               respect to Haldeman, another matter.  In connection with
               payments of money after

Pres. Nixon:  the fact.

H. Peterson:  June 17th, Mitchell requested Dean to activate Kalmbach.  Dean
               said he didn't have that authority and he went to Haldeman.

Pres. Nixon:  Uh, huh.

H. Peterson:  Haldeman gave him the authority.

Pres. Nixon:  Uh, huh.

H. Peterson:  He then got in touch with Kalmbach to arrange for money, the
               details of which we really don't know as yet.

Pres. Nixon:  Right.

H. Peterson:  So Kalmbach is also a Grand Jury witness to be called.  And I
               think those are the only additional developments.

Pres. Nixon:  Right.  What is your situation with regard to negotiation with
               Dean and your negotiation with regard to testimony by Magruder?

H. Peterson:  Well the trouble is -

Pres. Nixon:  Trying to get the timing, you see, with regard to whatever I
               say.

H. Peterson:  Magruder's lawyers are still waiting to get back to him.

Pres. Nixon:  I see.

H. Peterson:  They are very much concerned about Judge Sirica and they are not
               so much concerned about Ervin.  Now their immediate concern is
               Sirica and they want that ironed out first.

Pres. Nixon:  What do they want ironed out, that -

H. Peterson:  That he won't go to jail before the rest of them.

Pres. Nixon:  Oh, I see, if he confesses?

H. Peterson:  That's right.  Thus, pending a meeting with Judge Sirica -

Pres. Nixon:  Which you've got to have, I suppose?

H. Peterson:  Titus knows him better than any of us.

Pres. Nixon:  Sure.

H. Peterson:  Probably Titus will handle that aspect of it.

Pres. Nixon:  Uh, huh.

H. Peterson:  But that's got to be very delicately done.  He is apt to blast
               us all publicly.

Pres. Nixon:  Sirica?  Right.

H. Peterson:  We'll see and then we will take up the Senator Ervin issue.

Pres. Nixon:  Doesn't seem to be the major issue, though.  The main thing is
               Sirica he is concerned about?

H. Peterson:  Sure.

Pres. Nixon:  Sure, because the Ervin thing will become moot in my opinion.

H. Peterson:  Now the other concern we have on that issue is how to charge.

Pres. Nixon:  How to charge?

H. Peterson:  In terms of how we charge Magruder.  In terms of the things we
               are concerned with, we don't feel like we ought to put Haldeman
               and Ehrlichman in there as unindicted co-conspirators at this
               point, but we are afraid not to.  If we don't and it gets out,
               you know, it is going to look like a big cover-up again.

Pres. Nixon:  Hmph.

H. Peterson:  So we are trying to wrestle our way through that.

Pres. Nixon:  Whether you indict Haldeman and Ehrlichman along with the
               others, huh?

H. Peterson:  Well we would name them at this point only as unindicted
               coconspirators, but anybody who is named as an unindicted
               coconspirator in that indictment is in all probability going to
               be indicted later on.

Pres. Nixon:  So you have to make a determination as to whether -

H. Peterson:  Secondary issue is of course is whether we are going to have
               enough corroboration to make those statements, and -

Pres. Nixon:  That statement would be made, as I understand it, as you were
               telling me, if -

H. Peterson:  It would be in Open Court.

Pres. Nixon:  It would be made in Open Court, and then you would make a
               statement with the others.  You would name them at that time?

H. Peterson:  Well, we wouldn't do it in those terms.  We would simply do it
               in terms of feeding the facts to the Court.

Pres. Nixon:  That would be done publicly.  Would you name Mitchell then too?

H. Peterson:  Well, we would have to.  You see the problem in -

Pres. Nixon:  That would all be done in Open Court?

H. Peterson:  That's right.  Once we do that, or even if we don't, Sirica's
               habit in Court, and he certainly is going to do it in this
               case, is to interrogate the defendant himself.

Pres. Nixon:  Right.

H. Peterson:  And -

Pres. Nixon:  The defendant who pleads guilty?

H. Peterson:  That's right.  If he interrogates Magruder, that - brings out
               the Ehrlichman/Haldeman facts and if we haven't mentioned them
               or included them in the conspiracy charge, then we are all
               going to have a black eye.

Pres. Nixon:  I get your point.

H. Peterson:  These are the things we are trying to work out.

Pres. Nixon:  You've got quite a plate full.  You probably won't get it
               tomorrow then will you?

H. Peterson:  I doubt it.  I doubt it.

Pres. Nixon:  Uh, huh.  What about Dean - in his case you are still
               negotiating, huh?

H. Peterson:  Well, we are still tying down facts with him and we want to get
               as much as we can.

Pres. Nixon:  And basically with him, the point is you've got to get enough
               facts to justify giving him immunity?  Right?

H. Peterson:  Enough to make the decision, yes sir.

Pres. Nixon:  Depends on how much he tells you, is that it?

H. Peterson:  Right.  And more than that, how much of it we can corroborate.

Pres. Nixon:  If you can't corroborate enough then he doesn't get off, is that
               it?

H. Peterson:  Well, if we can't corroborate it, that's right.  We can't very
               well immunize him and put him head to head against a witness
               who is going to beat him.

Pres. Nixon:  I see.  Well his people are playing it pretty tough with you
               then?

H. Peterson:  Yes sir.

Pres. Nixon:  I guess we'd do that too, I suppose.

H. Peterson:  Indeed so.

Pres. Nixon:  I prefer them to do that.  Let me see if I get the facts?  You
               will hear Strachan tomorrow, perhaps.

H. Peterson:  We expect he will be in.  He will come in with his lawyer again.

Pres. Nixon:  My second point is that - let me see about the 19th - Dean says
               that -

H. Peterson:  On the 19th.

Pres. Nixon:  Yeah.

H. Peterson:  Liddy confessed to Dean.

Pres. Nixon:  Dean says that?

H. Peterson:  Dean says that.

Pres. Nixon:  Liddy confessed to him and that he told Ehrlichman?

H. Peterson:  Right.  He told Ehrlichman.

Pres. Nixon:  Humph - that's new fact isn't it?

H. Peterson:  It's at least - yes, sir, and that's a terribly important fact I
               think because there was no disclosure made by either one of
               them.

Pres. Nixon:  Either Dean or Ehrlichman?

H. Peterson:  Yes, sir.

Pres. Nixon:  Humph.  When did Dean say this?

H. Peterson:  It got to me this evening.  I am not quite sure when Dean said
               it. Gilbert (unintelligible)

Pres. Nixon:  You see the point is, Dean didn't tell me that.  That is the
               thing that discourages me.

H. Peterson:  Well, Mr. President, you have to remember that we are debriefing
               him on what has transpired over the last eighteen months.

Pres. Nixon:  I see.

H. Peterson:  It is very difficult, you know, to get it all in.

Pres. Nixon:  I know.  I am not talking about you, but I am talking about what
               he didn't tell me, you see.  That's a key fact that he should
               have told me, isn't it?

H. Peterson:  Yes.

Pres. Nixon:  Uh, huh.  Let's see, the 19th, and on the Haldeman thing what
               did you have there again so I get that in my mind.

H. Peterson:  Let me go back over my notes.  The principal thine that I wanted
               to point out to you on Haldeman is that Dean went to Haldeman
               to get authority to go to Kalmbach.

Pres. Nixon:  Oh yes, yes, yes.  That was it.  When Mitchell told him to go to
               Haldeman.

H. Peterson:  Mitchell told Dean simply to activate Kalmbach to handle the
               money.

Pres. Nixon:  I see.

H. Peterson:  Dean then went to Haldeman to get authority to contact Kalmbach.
               Thereafter, Kalmbach took care of the money.  Now details on
               the $350,000 which you indicated you knew about -


Pres. Nixon:  I knew about the fund.  I don't know how it all went -

H. Peterson:  This is how it developed.  It developed, as related to us, as
               money over which Haldeman exercised control.  That money was
               delivered to LaRue to be used for payments, at least a portion
               of it.

Pres. Nixon:  Some of it.  Right.  I think Haldeman would say that's true.  I
               think he would.  I don't know, but we'll see.  You should ask.
               I guess, Kalmbach.

H. Peterson:  The point of it is that it went to LaRue instead of going to the
               Committee directly.

Pres. Nixon:  Uh, huh.

H. Peterson:  LaRue apparently did not give a receipt and Haldeman had
               requested it.

Pres. Nixon:  Uh huh.  I think LaRue was loosely a member of the Finance
               Committee.  I think that was the point Haldeman - I said, who
               did this money go to?  He said, it went to LaRue was a member
               of the Committee or something like that or of Stans' committee.
               I don't know what that is.  Is that correct, or do you know
               that?

H. Peterson:  I don't know that.  All I know is that he worked for John
               Mitchell.  I will check on that though.

Pres. Nixon:  The money went to Mitchell?

H. Peterson:  No, I say all I know is LaRue worked for Mitchell.

Pres. Nixon:  Yeah.  I think he worked on the Finance Committee, but I don't
               know.  You ought to check that out.

H. Peterson:  I will.

Pres. Nixon:  O. K.  The main thing I need, of course, is something -
               well, before, wait you are not going to have anything tomorrow
               in Court so I don't -

H. Peterson:  I don't think so.

Pres. Nixon:  Tomorrow you just continue to develop the evidence.

H. Peterson:  Yes, sir.

Pres. Nixon:  I think, therefore, no statement would be in order at the
               present time.  We decided against one today.  It just didn't
               seem to - I thought it might - I just had to make my own
               determination.  I thought it would jeopardize possibly the
               prosecution, you know.  Who knows?

H. Peterson:  Probably would raise more questions than it answered.

Pres. Nixon:  That's right.  We don't want to say anything until - like if
               there has been a big break in the case and everybody starts -

H. Peterson:  I will tell you one thing, Mr. President, that you ought to
               know.  I had a call from (unintelligible) Ostrow of the L. A.
               Times, who is a decent man and a reasonably good acquaintance.
               A reporter of character, if there are any, and he said that
               they had a report out of the White House that - let me use his
               words - that two or three people in the White House were going
               to be thrown to the wolves.  He asked if there was anything to
               it, and I said there is not a damn thing I can tell you about
               it.  I just can't say anything about it one way or another.  I
               don't want to confirm it and I don't want to deny it.

Pres. Nixon:  So they will probably write a story on that, huh?

H. Peterson:  I don't know, but I mention it only because its

Pres. Nixon:  It's beginning to get out.  Yeah.

H. Peterson:  Beginning to percolate.

Pres. Nixon:  It must have come from the U. S. Attorney's office you think?

H. Peterson:  I doubt it, because I have not told them - unless they made
               their own conjecture.

Pres. Nixon:  U. S. Attorney - but they were thinking in terms of the
               Haldeman/Ehrlichman thing, and Dean, I suppose.

H. Peterson:  I don't know what he was thinking about, and I don't -

Pres. Nixon:  Where does the Colson thing come in again?  I want to get that
               one down too.

H. Peterson:  Where does who fit?

Pres. Nixon:  Colson.

H. Peterson:  Colson was present when Ehrlichman issued the order for Hunt to
               get out of the country.

Pres. Nixon:  I get it.  Fine.  O.K.  So you will call him too?

H. Peterson:  Yes, sir.

Pres. Nixon:  Right.  O.K.  Well if anything comes up, call me even if it is
               the middle of the night.  O.K.?

H. Peterson:  I will indeed.

Pres. Nixon:  Thank you.

H. Peterson:  All right, Mr. President, thank you.