Internet Info 1997 December/Internet_Info_CD-ROM_Walnut_Creek_December_1997.iso/ietf/cidrd/cidrd-minutes-94mar.txt

Text File | 1994-05-13 | 10.9 KB | 304 lines

CURRENT_MEETING_REPORT_

Reported by Jessica Yu/Merit

Minutes of the CIDR Deployment Working Group (CIDRD)


Agenda

   o CIDR deployment status
   o Aggregation do's and don'ts
   o Request for more generality in NSFNET NACRs
   o CIDR block allocation guidelines
   o Router VLSM functionality test reports
   o NIC check/renumbering


Administrivia

This group was formerly called ``BGP Deployment and Application''
(BGPDEPL). The name has officially been changed to ``CIDR Deployment''
(CIDRD) to better reflect its current mission.  The mailing list for the
group has not changed.


Overview

The group agreed unanimously and emphaticly that CIDR needs to be
deployed now.  The last major piece of core BGP-4 interoperability is to
be deployed on the Saturday after the meeting when ANS and the CIX will
start speaking BGP-4 to each other.  There are already about 100
networks being routed by aggregates alone; there is proof now that CIDR
is working and that it is reasonably safe to switch to it.  The next
group meetings for discussing CIDR deployment will probably be the
NATCOM (formerly ``Regional-Techs'') meeting in Ann Arbor 2-3 June, and
the RIPE meeting.  These meetings are too far in the future to defer
CIDR deployment issues until then.  Progress on CIDR needs to be made
now; any coordination necessary to make that happen needs to happen in
this meeting or on mailing lists.

There was an extended discussion about whether this group should pick a
date and then stop routing where providers had not aggregated.  A straw
poll showed 18 hands supporting such a unified cutoff date somewhere
around 1 June 1994.  There were some strong cautions (including from
Scott Bradner, Operations Area co-Director) that IETF working groups do
not have the formal structure to allow this kind of a trade decision.
This might constitute legal restraint of trade.  It would be better for
NSPs to make such decisions independently (especially with independently
selected dates), but not formally as this group.

Andrew Partan offered the following perspective:  as a service provider,
he will monitor his routing tables and will keep the list posted; he
will not set an arbitrary date now.  But if the situation grows more
critical, he will do what is necessary to keep his network viable.
Suggestions:  service providers should enable proxy for stub sites; look
at ASs that are not creating aggregates, and do proxy there.


CIDR Deployment Status

Jessica Yu presented the following points:


   o Many ASs have deployed BGP-4 and are CIDR-capable now

   o All major providers are either ``CIDRizing'' or defaulting

   o About 30 ASs are advertizing about 100 CIDR routes

   o About 200 more specific routes have been withdrawn

   o The community desperately needs to further reduce routing table
     size

   o New ways to do operations in a CIDR world need to be found


Tony Bates reported that twenty-seven aggregates are not announcing any
more-specific routes.  See the files ftp.ripe.net:cidr/stats/Specific*
for daily updates.

Eric-Jan Bos presented tables from The Netherlands showing:  with
``classic'' measures:  19758 routes (24 As, 4143 Bs, 15591 Cs); looking
to CIDR measures:  four ``B'' blocks + 109 ``C'' blocks (1x/9, 4x/15,
20x/16 ...  34x/23).  Only thirty-five ASNs are announcing aggregates
(of 338 known ASNs)!

Merit posts lists of aggregate nestings and withdrawals (also noting
policy conflicts) in:


     merit.edu:pub/nsfnet/cidr/nestings.announced


CIDR progress, as seen on AS690, is also tracked in cidr_savings in the
same directory.


Aggregation Do's and Don'ts

Andrew Partan presented the following points:


   o Proxies need to know the local topology.

   o Sometimes when people announce a large route and withdraw the more
     specific routes, they forget that you still need to route some of
     those more-specifics (e.g., customers who have moved, multi-homed
     ASs).

   o Check outside of your routers to see what is really happening in
     the outside world.



Meta-Aggregate NACRs

Peter Lothberg requested a change in the way that AS690 handles
aggregate configurations.  He would like to be able to configure one
aggregate, and then be allowed to announce any classless network within
that aggregate and have exactly what he announces be propagated into and
through AS690.  This would allow him to change his aggregation strategy
on the fly without registering each aggregate that he intends to use in
the future with the NSFNET PRDB. Dennis Ferguson said he would look into
what this would require.  Merit will also review the routing stability
implications of this change.



CIDR Block Assignments

It would be very helpful to have a document that NSPs can hand out to
their customers to explain the CIDR conservation situation and rational
CIDR block allocation policies.  (This has come up before, but it is
becoming more urgent.)  Vince Fuller presented a list of some pieces
that already exist:


   o IANA to regional NICs (i.e., RFC 1466)
   o Regional NIC to providers (i.e., RIPE-104)
   o Provider to customers (i.e., RIPE templates)
   o Customer block usage (subnetting document?  Harvard Eidnes document
     extract?)


How many documents exist?  What is the structure of the documents?

Customer block assignment issues:  How big should blocks be?  (The
customer doesn't know.)  Vince presented the following questions/issues
when this question was asked:


   o How many host IP addresses?
   o How many network segments?
   o Hosts per segment (range)?
   o What type of routers?
   o WAN links (i.e., multiple sites in customer network)?
      -  If yes, #1-3 for each site.
      -  Un-numbered serial links?
   o Goal of >10% block utilization (Postel to SESQUInet)
   o RFC 1597---how much of the net is public?


Charlie Kline presented his tool for managing CIDR allocations.  It is
available from:


     ftp.cic.net:/pub/src/tree.tar.Z
     ftp.cic.net:/pub/src/tree.hqx (Macintosh executable)


Peter Ford also pointed out that we need to document CIDR and allocation
guidelines for two categories of large future usage:  SLIP and PPP
protocols.

David Conrad, Tony Bates, Marten Terpstra and Andrew Partan will work on
these documents.  Peter Ford will co-ordinate the editing of this
document.  Goals are 1 May for a draft, and a final copy after the next
RIPE meeting.


WIDE VLSM Report

Akira Kato made a presentation of his work with Hiroshi Kawazoe on a
project to determine if VLSM is ready or not.  His slides follow the
minutes.  A test was held on 24-25 November with the following routers:
IBM 611/140, mpnp.1.1.1.2; Proteon CNX-500, V15.0a[Z1]; cisco 3000,
9.1.8; 3Com NetBuilder II, XW6.2.0.10; and Sony NWG-5000WSN, NEWS-OS
6.0.  Product performance is not identified by router in the final
report, by agreement with the participants.

Most routers passed most of the tests they performed, except one which
failed to handle supernets.  Conclusion:  VLSM is almost ready.


Action Items

   o NSPs leave Seattle, go home and withdraw some routes!

   o Use [e-mail] to make CIDR progress known.

   o NSPs will press their customers and peers to implement CIDR.

   o NSPs will start to proxy-aggregate stub-ASs.

   o RIPE and Merit will set up CIDR tool repositories for public use
     (ftp.ripe.net:/cidr/fdata,docs,stats,toolsg).

   o Group to produce guidelines documents (details above).


Attendees

Nashwa Abdel-Baki        [e-mail]
Vadim Antonov            [e-mail]
Susie Armstrong          [e-mail]
William Barns            [e-mail]
Tony Bates               [e-mail]
Jordan Becker            [e-mail]
Steven Blair             [e-mail]
Erik-Jan Bos             [e-mail]
Scott Bradner            [e-mail]
Ronald Broersma          [e-mail]
Brad Burdick             [e-mail]
Jeffrey Burgan           [e-mail]
Joesph Burrescia         [e-mail]
Randy Bush               [e-mail]
Henry Clark              [e-mail]
Michael Collins          [e-mail]
David Conrad             [e-mail]
Steve Corbato            [e-mail]
Sean Doran               [e-mail]
Tom Easterday            [e-mail]
Havard Eidnes            [e-mail]
Nasser El-Aawar          [e-mail]
Erik Fair                [e-mail]
Steve Feldman            [e-mail]
William Fenner           [e-mail]
Dennis Ferguson          [e-mail]
Robert Fink              [e-mail]
H. Tom Fitzpatrick       [e-mail]
Vince Fuller             [e-mail]
Dimitry Haskin           [e-mail]
Eugene Hastings          [e-mail]
Kenneth Hays             [e-mail]
Denise Heagerty          [e-mail]
Steven Hubert            [e-mail]
Jinho Hur                [e-mail]
Geoff Huston             [e-mail]
David Jacobson           [e-mail]
Dale Johnson             [e-mail]
Matthew Jonson           [e-mail]
Merike Kaeo              [e-mail]
Akira Kato               [e-mail]
Hiroshi Kawazoe          [e-mail]
Sean Kennedy             [e-mail]
Edwin King               [e-mail]
Charley Kline            [e-mail]
Mark Knopper             [e-mail]
John Krawczyk            [e-mail]
Tony Li                  [e-mail]
Lars-Johan Liman         [e-mail]
Kim Long                 [e-mail]
Peter Lothberg           [e-mail]
Jamshid Mahdavi          [e-mail]
Bill Manning             [e-mail]
Matt Mathis              [e-mail]
Jun Matsukata            [e-mail]
Keith Mitchell           [e-mail]
Pushpendra Mohta         [e-mail]
Gilles-Andre Morin       [e-mail]
Ngoc-Lan Nguyen          [e-mail]
Peder Chr.  Noergaard    [e-mail]
Donald Pace              [e-mail].
Krishnan Parameshwaran   [e-mail]
Kurt Parent              [e-mail]
Andrew Partan            [e-mail]
Michael Patton           [e-mail]
David Piscitello         [e-mail]
Rex Pugh                 [e-mail]
Yakov Rekhter            [e-mail]
Robert Reschly           [e-mail]
Tony Richards            [e-mail]
Francois Robitaille      [e-mail]
Duncan Rogerson          [e-mail]
Michal Rozenthal         [e-mail]
John Scudder             [e-mail]
Tim Seaver               [e-mail]
Henry Sinnreich          [e-mail]
Bernhard Stockman        [e-mail]
Tim Streater             [e-mail]
Marten Terpstra          [e-mail]
Paul Traina              [e-mail]
Willem van der Scheun    [e-mail]
Ruediger Volk            [e-mail]
Chris Wheeler            [e-mail]
Linda Winkler            [e-mail]
Cathy Wittbrodt          [e-mail]
Philip Wood              [e-mail]
Jessica Yu               [e-mail]
Paul Zawada              [e-mail]