MR. FRANKLIN: There is some requirement of that kind, but I can not give you information regarding that.
SENATOR PERKINS: As to her equipment?
MR. FRANKLIN: As to her equipment. It had to be in accordance with the British Board of Trade rules.
SENATOR PERKINS: In other words, in accordance with the British law?
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes; and her equipment was in excess of those requirements.
SENATOR PERKINS: She was fully equipped in accordance with the requirements of the British Board of Trade?
MR. FRANKLIN: She was equipped in excess of the requirements of the law of the British Board of Trade.
SENATOR PERKINS: And that is based upon the British law, of course.
MR. FRANKLIN: That is based upon the British law, of course.
SENATOR PERKINS: In regard to this matter of a Government subvention, you say you have no knowledge of her having been built under the direction of the Navy Department?
MR. FRANKLIN: I have no knowledge as to what the requirements of the Navy Department are in connection with the subvention. There is some provision, I believe, in regard to the strengthening of the ship.
SENATOR PERKINS: All merchants ships are required to be constructed under the requirements of the British Lloyd's?
MR. FRANKLIN: No, sir­­­
SENATOR PERKINS: (continuing) In order to get a rating. They are obliged to, in this country.
MR. FRANKLIN: Not the British Lloyd's in this country.
SENATOR PERKINS: The American Lloyd's?
MR. FRANKLIN: Not necessarily.
SENATOR PERKINS: They have to do it, to get the advantage of the subsidy, do they not?
MR. FRANKLIN: That policy is pursued, under the British Lloyd's, in regard to the construction, very largely by people having tramp steamers and other steamers of that type; but when you get down to this more expensive and better type of steamers, they are so far in excess of any regulations that there is nothing to be accomplished by having that done. But they can always be put under these regulations if you want them to be.
As far as the British Board of Trade is concerned, in regard to the protection for life, no ship can sail from England without the Board of Trade certificate. That is the law of England.
SENATOR PERKINS: They can not be cleared from the customhouse without the certificate?
MR. FRANKLIN: No, sir. They would not be allowed to carry any passengers unless they had the Board of Trade certificate.
SENATOR PERKINS: And entered in the customhouse, of course?
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes; and nailed in a prominent place on the steamer.
SENATOR PERKINS: That is all.
MR. FRANKLIN: I would like to get clearly before you that the Board of Trade certificate which is the law of England is entirely different from the classification under Lloyd's, which is purely the commercial problem. The one is the law. The other is purely a business matter.
SENATOR PERKINS: One is a set of rules and regulations?
MR. FRANKLIN: The Board of Trade rules and regulations. That is the law. This ship was in excess of the requirements of the law in every particular at that time.
SENATOR BOURNE: Is the White Star a British company?
MR. FRANKLIN: The Oceanic Steam Navigation Co.­­­
SENATOR BOURNE: I am speaking of the White Star Line itself. Is the White Star Line a corporation?
MR. FRANKLIN: It is a trade name; yes, sir.
SENATOR BOURNE: It is just a trade name.
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes, sir.
SENATOR BOURNE: The company is the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co.?
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes.
SENATOR BOURNE: Owner of the White Star Line?
MR. FRANKLIN: Right.
SENATOR BOURNE: A British company?
MR. FRANKLIN: Right.
SENATOR BOURNE: And the stock is held there?
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes, sir.
SENATOR BOURNE: The International Mercantile Marine Co. is interested in that stock, is it?
MR. FRANKLIN: They are the holding company.
SENATOR BOURNE: Through the subsidiary companies is the ownership of the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co. in the International Mercantile Marine?
MR. FRANKLIN: The Oceanic Steam Navigation Co. is the managing company, the controlling company, the owning company of the White Star Line. That is the trade name under which the steamers run as a trade name.
The stock of the Oceanic Steam Navigation Co. is owned by the International Navigation Co. (Ltd.) of England, of Liverpool.
SENATOR BOURNE: And the stock of the company is owned by whom?
MR. FRANKLIN: It is controlled and owned by the I.M.M. Co. through the bondholders.
SENATOR BOURNE: That is, through the International Mercantile Marine Co.
MR. FRANKLIN: The International Mercantile Marine Co. of New Jersey.
SENATOR BOURNE: That is an American company?
MR. FRANKLIN: That is an American company.
SENATOR BOURNE: Is the management of the International Mercantile Marine Co. dictated from the United States or from the Liverpool office?
MR. FRANKLIN: The policy, the management, from that point of view, is dictated by the president, Mr. Ismay, whose headquarters are in Liverpool.
SENATOR BOURNE: That is, the practical management?
MR. FRANKLIN: The practical management.
SENATOR BOURNE: The general management or the general policy would be dictated by the International Mercantile Marine Co. in New York, would it not ­ from their office?
MR. FRANKLIN: All the questions regarding operation or management of the company are left to Mr. Ismay, the president.
SENATOR BOURNE: That is, the practical management?
MR. FRANKLIN: Yes.
SENATOR BOURNE: If you were going to increase the stockholdings, if you were going to invest several million dollars in new ships, you would decide it in New York, would you not?
MR. FRANKLIN: If we were going to invest several million dollars in new ships, Mr. Ismay­­­
SENATOR BOURNE: (interposing) Would make his recommendation?
MR. FRANKLIN: He would probably make his recommendation.
SENATOR BOURNE: But the decision would be with the New York company, however?
MR. FRANKLIN: Not necessarily.
SENATOR BOURNE: Is it customarily? In building the Titanic, who decided the matter?
MR. FRANKLIN: In building the Titanic? I could not tell you exactly how it was decided, but it was led up to in this way: Mr. Ismay, no doubt, consulted with the various directors, and it was decided that it would be desirable to follow out his recommendations and construct the two steamers, the Olympic and the Titanic. That met with the approval of the board of directors.
SENATOR BOURNE: The action was taken by the board of directors in New York?
MR. FRANKLIN: They, in confirming Mr. Ismay's action, did that; yes, sir.
SENATOR BOURNE: They vitalized the action or recommendation?
MR. FRANKLIN: They confirmed his action.
SENATOR BOURNE: He could not have taken the action, but for their authority, could he? He would not have done so, as a matter of fact?
MR. FRANKLIN: I do not think he would have done so.
SENATOR BOURNE: No. Was there any direction or request sent from the management or anything connected with the International Mercantile Marine or any of the subsidiary companies to try to make a speed record on the Titanic?
MR. FRANKLIN: Not the slightest, and never would be in the first voyage. She never would be pressed.
SENATOR BOURNE: From the experience incident to the Titanic disaster, have you or your associates come to any conclusion as to laws, policies, or regulations which, if internationally adopted, would minimize the possibility of such a catastrophe?
MR. FRANKLIN: I think the fairest way for me to answer that question is this: That since the accident to the Titanic we have been absolutely overwhelmed, first in distress matters, to do everything we could for everybody, and the only precaution or action that we have taken is that Mr. Ismay authorized, last Friday, and instructed the managers abroad to immediately equip all of the I.M.M. Co.'s steamers with lifeboats and life rafts enough to carry every passenger and every member of the crew. Further than that we have not gone.
SENATOR BOURNE: These new instructions were based upon your conclusions, I assume, that it was impossible to make a nonsinkable ship?
MR. FRANKLIN: Based upon a conclusion that nobody ever for one moment realized that an accident of this kind could have happened. There was nothing further from the minds of everybody than that an accident of this kind could take place. We never thought, until we got Capt. Haddock's message in the first place, that the ship could go down, and, in the next place, that there would be any material loss of life. This has demonstrated an entirely new proposition that has to be dealt with ­ something that nobody had ever thought of before. These steamers were considered tremendous lifeboats in themselves. This vessel was constructed as only three other ships have been constructed, and they are all owned by the White Star Line.
SENATOR BOURNE: Have you come to any conclusion in your own mind that any individual was responsible in any direction or in any manner for this catastrophe?
MR. FRANKLIN: I do not see how you can blame anybody. You have the best commander; you have everybody aboard that was interested in the ship; there is no reason to feel that every precaution would not be taken. You had no instructions to force the ship; you had nothing for which you can blame yourself at all.
SENATOR BOURNE: You say the Titanic cost, complete, one million and a half pounds, in round numbers. What was she insured for?
MR. FRANKLIN: She was insured for, in round numbers, £1,000,000, the balance being carried by the I.M.M. Co., under our own underwriting scheme.
SENATOR BOURNE: You say Harland & Wolff build your ships on a percentage basis. They construct plans and submit them to you, and you determine; and then your representatives, I presume, oversee the construction of the ship, and they get an added percentage of the cost? So it is to their advantage to make the ship, from a dollar standpoint, cost as much as possible, is it not?
MR. FRANKLIN: Right, sir. When you say that I do this, you mean, of course, that the company, in its ramifications, does this. The owner of the ship does this; the owning company.
SENATOR BOURNE: Yes.
MR. FRANKLIN: There is every reason why Harland & Wolff would be very glad to put anything under heaven on the ship, because the more they put on it the more they would make.
SENATOR BOURNE: What percentage is it customary for Harland & Wolff to receive on the cost?
MR. FRANKLIN: I think it is 5 per cent. It is covered by an agreement.
SENATOR BOURNE: Have you any knowledge as to whether precautionary measures were taken by the officers of the ship after word was received of the vicinity of icebergs and ice floes?
MR. FRANKLIN: I have no doubt of that, because of what we have gotten from the testimony before you. As I say, I have not had any talk about the matter with any of the officers and men. I have not had any conversation with them about the matter.
SENATOR BOURNE: Have you or your associates come to any conclusion as to improvements that can be made in legislation that would minimize the possibility of the repetition of a catastrophe of this nature?
MR. FRANKLIN: No, sir; because, as I have just said, we have had no time to thoroughly discuss that.
SENATOR BOURNE: You have not had the time?
MR. FRANKLIN: We have not had the time to do it. We can only say this, that everything we have is open, and we will give you every assistance that we possibly can in every way. If there are any suggestions that we can make, or any matters in regard to which you desire our opinion, or anything of that kind, we will get our experts to give it to you. We are not experts ourselves. That is what I would like to have you understand.
SENATOR BOURNE: The only deduction you have made is that it is impossible to build a nonsinkable ship?
MR. FRANKLIN: It looks so to­day, from this experience. If you had asked me that a week ago I would have said no. I would have said we had them.
SENATOR BOURNE: You gave the minimum costs of the first, second, and third class passage on the Titanic. What are the maximum costs?
MR. FRANKLIN: That would run up to anything. It depends entirely upon circumstances and conditions.
SENATOR BOURNE: It depends upon the furnishing of the rooms, I suppose?
MR. FRANKLIN: A man might want a room and bath and sitting room for himself and his servant. Another man might come along and say: "I want these two rooms and bath and sitting room, and I want to put five people in them, or four people in them." Each of the rooms has two single beds in it. It is entirely a question of what taste each person has and what his requirements are, and what accommodations they want in the way of space.
SENATOR BOURNE: And the length of purse would also be a factor?
MR. FRANKLIN: We can not determine that. We like to get all we can, of course.
SENATOR SMITH: Before you leave the stand, Mr. Franklin, are you able to answer whether this ship was equipped with searchlights?
MR. FRANKLIN: I do not think she was. I never heard of her being equipped with searchlights.
SENATOR SMITH: Is it customary to equip your vessels with searchlights?
MR. FRANKLIN: I never heard of a trans­Atlantic liner being equipped with searchlights.
Have you cleared up as much as you want to in regard to in regard to this Cedric matter? A good deal has been said about that, and I think there has been a terrible mistake made, an awful mistake made there; and I would like to clear it up if you care to go into it further.
SENATOR SMITH: Right now?
MR. FRANKLIN: If you wish; yes.
SENATOR SMITH: We will take it up after luncheon, or now.
SENATOR BOURNE: I suggest that the gentleman clear up the matter on his own statement, stating what he thinks is necessary to do.
SENATOR SMITH: Now?
SENATOR BOURNE: Let him state where the misunderstanding is and what he thinks is necessary to clear it up.
MR. FRANKLIN: Criticism has been seriously made to the effect that those message were sent entirely with the idea of getting the crew away, and of Mr. Ismay's also getting away on account of what information might come out from the crew. I want to say that that was not in Mr. Ismay's mind. Everybody realizes the importance of getting these members of the crew away from the country at the earliest possible moment. We were not sailing a White Star steamer for another week, but we did change the schedule of the Lapland on Tuesday and sent her to Plymouth to take the mails. We thought we could get them out by Saturday.
As far as Mr. Ismay personally is concerned, he left his own personal movements entirely to us. As far as the crew are concerned, it is the duty of everybody connected with the steamers to get a crew, under such circumstances, out of the country just as quickly as it can be done. We have always tried to do that.
