SENATOR SMITH: And yours was No. 5. Do you know whether there were more men than women in boat No. 7?
MR. PITMAN: I can not say.
SENATOR SMITH: But there was no officer in No. 7?
MR. PITMAN: No officer in No. 7.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know how many sailors there were in No. 7?
MR. PITMAN: I do not, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you ever see No. 7 after it struck the water?
MR. PITMAN: Yes; I had it made fast to me. As there was no officer in the boat I said, "Look here, make fast to me and we will hang on until daylight, as it is smooth water, and at daylight we will set our sails, and we will be more like to be picked up if we are together than if one of us is over there and one over here."
SENATOR SMITH: After making fast, you attached the bow of No. 7 to the stern of No. 5 by a rope?
MR. PITMAN: By a rope ­ a painter.
SENATOR SMITH: And how close did you bring No. 7 up to No. 5?
MR. PITMAN: We were alongside, close alongside of each other for sometime; side by side for some time.
SENATOR SMITH: In that situation did you notice how many of the crew of the Titanic were in that boat?
MR. PITMAN: I could not say, sir; it was too dark.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you notice whether that lifeboat was filled with people?
MR. PITMAN: I do not think there were quite so many in there as in my boat. I am not sure.
SENATOR SMITH: Would you be willing to say that there were more than 25 in there?
MR. PITMAN: Oh, yes.
SENATOR SMITH: How many more?
MR. PITMAN: I would say there were over 30, between 30 and 40, in there.
SENATOR SMITH: Between 30 and 40, in your judgment?
MR. PITMAN: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did anyone on your lifeboat or on the other lifeboat count those people?
MR. PITMAN: Yes, we did count them, but I forget how many were really in that boat. I transferred a woman and child and two men from my boat into that boat.
SENATOR SMITH: After you had attached them, you balanced up the load?
MR. PITMAN: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: So, that there really was room in No. 7 for more people than were taken when it was lowered to the water?
MR. PITMAN: Yes, they could have taken a few more.
SENATOR SMITH: How many more, with safety?
MR. PITMAN: Well, that would depend a great deal on the condition of the water.
SENATOR SMITH: I know, but we have concluded that the water was smooth and the weather all right. Under those circumstances, with pleasant weather all the way, how many would that lifeboat hold safely?
MR. PITMAN: They are all supposed to contain 60 people.
SENATOR SMITH: But none of them did contain 60?
MR. PITMAN: I can not say, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: These two boats, No. 7 and No. 5, did not contain 60 people each?
MR. PITMAN: No. They could have taken more, but there were no women around at that time these boats were lowered.
SENATOR SMITH: And no men?
MR. PITMAN: There may have been a few men around there.
SENATOR SMITH: Were there?
MR. PITMAN: There were some; yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Why were they not taken?
MR. PITMAN: I can not say why they were not taken in No. 7, but I thought I had sufficient in my boat for safety in lowering.
SENATOR SMITH: Is there any danger in lowering a lifeboat with the davits and other equipment operating? Is there such danger in lowering a lifeboat that you can not fill it to its capacity?
MR. PITMAN: I would not like to fill a lifeboat with 60 people and lower it suspended at both ends.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you ever see 60 people in a lifeboat?
MR. PITMAN: No; I can not say that I have, although I think some of them had close on to 60 when they came alongside the Carpathia.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you hear Mr. Bride, the wireless telegrapher of the Titanic, testify?
MR. PITMAN: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you hear Mr. Lightoller testify?
MR. PITMAN: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Mr. Lightoller said that on the collapsible lifeboat, turned over bottom side up, there were 35 people. If a collapsible lifeboat, overturned, can accommodate 35 people sitting unprotected, what would be your judgment as to the capacity of a lifeboat such as No. 5 or No. 7, floating in its customary way; would 60 people be the limit?
MR. PITMAN: I should think so, sir. There is no room to move with 60 in it.
SENATOR SMITH: No room to move?
MR. PITMAN: No, sir. She would support a lot more if she was capsized and people in the water just holding onto her, of course.
SENATOR SMITH: I want to call attention again to what I suppose you may dislike me to return to, but I want to know, because I want the record to disclose the fact. At what time after you left the Titanic was No. 7 lifeboat attached to No. 5?
MR. PITMAN: It may have been from 1 to half past 2.
SENATOR SMITH: How much of the hour that you lay on your oars were these two boats together?
MR. PITMAN: It may have been an hour and it may have been two.
SENATOR SMITH: That you were together?
MR. PITMAN: That we were together; yes.
SENATOR SMITH: That is, before you were picked up by the Carpathia?
MR. PITMAN: Oh, yes. We had cast off before the Carpathia came in sight.
SENATOR SMITH: You had separated from one another?
MR. PITMAN: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: But you were fastened together how long?
MR. PITMAN: Maybe two hours. I am not quite certain about that.
SENATOR SMITH: Two hours? During those two hours you took some people out of your boat and put them into the other boat?
MR. PITMAN: Yes. That is correct.
SENATOR SMITH: Three people, as I understand you; men or women?
MR. PITMAN: Both, and a child.
SENATOR SMITH: How many men?
MR. PITMAN: I think two men, a lady, and a child.
SENATOR SMITH: Four people?
MR. PITMAN: I think so.
SENATOR SMITH: And you took them out and put them into this No. 7 boat?
MR. PITMAN: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: When you were doing that, were you aware of the fact that there were cries of distress, and many people were in the water nearby?
MR. PITMAN: No; there were not then. The ship had not disappeared then.
SENATOR SMITH: When this was done, the ship had not disappeared?
MR. PITMAN: No.
SENATOR SMITH: And these cries were not heard by you at that time?
MR. PITMAN: No. There were no cries at that time, or until after the ship had disappeared.
SENATOR SMITH: And you did not transfer these four passengers after the ship went down?
MR. PITMAN: Oh, no. Some time before the ship disappeared.
SENATOR SMITH: And then was No. 7 released?
MR. PITMAN: Yes. They slipped my rope.
SENATOR SMITH: What did you do then?
MR. PITMAN: I simply lay still, just as we were.
SENATOR SMITH: You just lay still, there?
MR. PITMAN: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you see the light of the Carpathia, or know she was approaching?
MR. PITMAN: We saw her lights about half past three, as near as I can recollect.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you row toward the light?
MR. PITMAN: Well, we waited until we were certain it was a steamer, and then we pulled toward her.
SENATOR SMITH: How far away did you see her, do you think?
MR. PITMAN: We could see the masthead light over 5 miles on a clear night.
SENATOR SMITH: When the Carpathia was about 5 miles away did you row toward her?
MR. PITMAN: No; I waited to make certain it was a steamer, until I could see both masthead lights.
SENATOR SMITH: You knew it was an object?
MR. PITMAN: Yes; but I did not know what it was. It might have been a star.
SENATOR SMITH: Could it have been a star ­ could you have taken it for a star?
MR. PITMAN: Oh, quite possibly.
SENATOR SMITH: But when you satisfied yourself from the number of lights that it was a relief boat­­
MR. PITMAN: We pulled toward it
SENATOR SMITH: You pulled toward it. At that time were any people in the water?
MR. PITMAN: There were no noises; no sounds then.
SENATOR SMITH: All moaning and cries of distress and ceased?
MR. PITMAN: Yes; that must have been about 4 o'clock.
SENATOR SMITH: Daybreak?
MR. PITMAN: It was just breaking day; yes.
SENATOR SMITH: As you pulled your boat toward the Carpathia I understood you to say you saw icebergs?
MR. PITMAN: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Several of them. Did you see any bodies in the water?
MR. PITMAN: None whatever, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: After that time?
MR. PITMAN: None whatever, at any time.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you , at any time during the time you were lying on your oars awaiting developments, see lights of any other character than those displayed on the Titanic or the Carpathia?
MR. PITMAN: Yes; some of our boats had lamps and green lights.
SENATOR SMITH: Aside from the lifeboats, did you see any other lights?
MR. PITMAN: I saw one white light.
SENATOR SMITH: Where?
MR. PITMAN: Away on the horizon. we could not make anything out of it.
SENATOR SMITH: At what time?
MR. PITMAN: About half past 1.
SENATOR SMITH: While you were lying on your oars?
MR. PITMAN: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: In the lifeboat?
MR. PITMAN: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: In what position was it?
MR. PITMAN: It was to the westward. Right ahead­­
SENATOR SMITH: Right on the course of the Titanic?
MR. PITMAN: Exactly.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you hear the testimony of Mr. Boxhall on that point?
MR. PITMAN: No, I did not. I have heard him speak about it.
SENATOR SMITH: Describe what you saw with your own eyes.
MR. PITMAN: I just saw a white light, and that is all. I said, "There is no use in pulling toward it until we know what it is." We saw the light, but I said, "What is the use of pulling to it?" It might have been one of our own boats with a white light on it.
SENATOR SMITH: One of your own lifeboats?
MR. PITMAN: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you see these lights at any time before you left the Titanic?
MR. PITMAN: No, I did not, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you see any rockets or other signals of distress sent up from the Titanic under the so­called Morse regulations?
MR. PITMAN: Oh, no; the Morse lamp is altogether different from the rocket.
SENATOR SMITH: I understand. I will divide the question. Did you see any Morse signals given from the Titanic before you left her side, or while you were lying on your oars in that lifeboat?
MR. PITMAN: No; I did not notice the Morse­­
SENATOR SMITH: Did you see any rockets?
MR. PITMAN: I should say about a dozen rockets were fired.
SENATOR SMITH: What did you see? What did they do?
MR. PITMAN: They were fired from the rail. They make a report while leaving the rail, and also an explosion in the air, and they throw stars, of course, in the air.
SENATOR SMITH: Red in color?
MR. PITMAN: Various colors.
SENATOR SMITH: You saw those signals of distress, did you, from the Titanic?
MR. PITMAN: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: And you saw about a dozen or so of them?
MR. PITMAN: It may have been a dozen or it may have been more, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: When was this? When did you first see them; before you left the Titanic?
MR. PITMAN: No; shortly after.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you see any while you were aboard the Titanic, any of that character?
MR. PITMAN: None were fired.
SENATOR SMITH: None were fired?
MR. PITMAN: No.
SENATOR SMITH: You do not know, of your own knowledge, whether the Morse signals of distress were given?
MR. PITMAN: There are no Morse signals of distress.
SENATOR SMITH: Well, I mean Morse signals. I mean a communication from the Titanic­­
MR. PITMAN: To this supposed ship?
SENATOR SMITH: To this supposed ship, on your course?
MR. PITMAN: Yes; I heard of them Morseing to her; that is all. I do not know for certain.
SENATOR SMITH: You heard of that, but you did not see anything of that kind?
MR. PITMAN: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: And do not know anything about it of your own knowledge?
MR. PITMAN: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you have a watch on when you entered the lifeboat?
MR. PITMAN: I did, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Can you fix the exact moment of time when the Titanic disappeared?
MR. PITMAN: 2:20 exactly, ship's time. I took my watch out at the time she disappeared, and I said, "It is 2:20," and the passengers around me heard it.
SENATOR SMITH: 2:20 a.m.?
MR. PITMAN: 2:20 a.m., the 15th of April.
SENATOR SMITH: Did the firing of the rockets make any noise like the report of a pistol?
MR. PITMAN: Like the report of a gun.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you, aboard the Titanic, hear anything of your proximity to the Frankfurt of the North German Lloyd, or any other ship?
MR. PITMAN: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know what time the Helig Olav ­ do you know a boat of that name?
MR. PITMAN: No; I do not.
SENATOR SMITH: You do not know anything about a boat of that name?
MR. PITMAN: There may be one.
SENATOR SMITH: But you do not know?
MR. PITMAN: No; I do not know.
SENATOR SMITH: I neglected to ask you whether, in fixing the time when the Titanic disappeared beneath the water, you gave me ship's time?
MR. PITMAN: Yes; that is ship's time.
SENATOR SMITH: You had the accurate ship's time?
MR. PITMAN: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: When were the ship's clocks set; do you know?
MR. PITMAN: They are set at midnight every night.
SENATOR SMITH: They were set a midnight?
MR. PITMAN: Every night.
SENATOR SMITH: And they were set at midnight Sunday night?
MR. PITMAN: No; we had something else to think of.
SENATOR SMITH: Exactly; so that you got the ship's time?
MR. PITMAN: Ship's time.
SENATOR SMITH: From midnight Saturday?
MR. PITMAN: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: And your watch­­
MR. PITMAN: Was correct.
SENATOR SMITH: Was correct?
MR. PITMAN: Yes, sir.
SENATOR FLETCHER: Midday or midnight, did he say?
SENATOR SMITH: Midnight.
SENATOR FLETCHER: Midnight of Saturday night?
MR. PITMAN: They are corrected in the forenoon, perhaps half a minute or a minute; that is all.
SENATOR SMITH: What is that, Mr. Lightoller?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: The clocks are set at midnight, but that is for the approximate noon position of the following day. Therefore Sunday noon the clocks will be accurate.
SENATOR SMITH: That is Mr. Lightoller, the second officer. [To the witness:] What was the Greenwich time compared with the ship's time?
MR. PITMAN: I can not say.
SENATOR SMITH: Can you say, Mr. Lightoller?
MR. LIGHTOLLER: I can give you the Greenwich time.
SENATOR SMITH: I wish you would.
MR. LIGHTOLLER: 5:47­2:20­5:47 Greenwich mean time; 2:20 apparent time of ship.
SENATOR PERKINS: Captain, what was the certificate of the Titanic had as to number of passengers and crew?
MR. PITMAN: I do not know, sir.
SENATOR PERKINS: She had over 2,000, did she not?
MR. PITMAN: Passengers and crew?
SENATOR PERKINS: Yes.
MR. PITMAN: I think so.
SENATOR PERKINS: And you had boats to accommodate only about 1,200 at the most?
MR. PITMAN: I could not say how many they were supposed to accommodate.
