SENATOR SMITH: And yet there was no one to properly man the lifeboats?
MR. LOWE: You must remember there were a lot of them down below.
SENATOR SMITH: I am making allowance for that. You were on the upper deck, and you were watching this matter. You were sufficiently interested in it so that you did not want even Mr. Ismay to interfere and did not want anybody else to interfere. I want you to answer my question if you can.
MR. LOWE: I know absolutely nothing about the other departments, either the stokehold department or the engineering department. We know nothing whatever, only about our own.
SENATOR PERKINS: It is in the testimony that there were 83 sailors.
MR. LOWE: I do not know. We were brand new to the ship, just the same as everybody else.
SENATOR SMITH: If there were 83 sailors, and the testimony shows that there were 83 available men who did know how how to man and how to care for a lifeboat, then there were that many, were there not, who could have handled those boats?
MR. LOWE: No; they did not know how to man or care for lifeboats. That is why I say a sailor is not necessarily a boatman.
SENATOR SMITH: I understand; but you had a complement of men there who were selected because they could discharge this duty. I want to know where those men were ­ whether they were at the boats when you had finished the loading or whether they were not/ and if they were at the boats, why were not put into them in sufficient numbers?
MR. LOWE: In the first place, you must remember that I was what was termed a junior officer, and I am not one of the seniors; that is, I do as the senior tells me. Certainly I have authority of I am there myself, and there only; but should there be anybody else, I give way to the senior and take his orders.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know in which of the lifeboats these six men, that were on the lookout in the crow's nest, were rescued?
MR. LOWE: The six men in the crow's nest?
SENATOR SMITH: Yes; Mr. Fleet and these others?
MR. LOWE: No, sir; I do not.
SENATOR SMITH: But you wish us to understand from all you have said that there were not men suitable and available at that particular time to properly man these lifeboats?
MR. LOWE: They were the same men as you get in every mercantile marine, not the British alone. You will find the best sailors going in the British marine; but that does not matter. It is the same in the American, and just the same everywhere.
SENATOR SMITH: I am not having a very easy time with you, because you do not seem to be willing to answer my questions. We have asked you and you have said, that the lifeboats were all that could be expected and that the gear and equipment was complete. You have said that two of them were tested at Southampton, and you have said that they were only loaded to partial capacity, because there was danger in lowering, and that that danger did not relate to the equipment, but to the capacity of the men who were doing that work.
Are you ready to admit that the men on that ship, whose duty it was to report to their stations when the order was issued to clear away the lifeboats and lower them with women and children, were not available? You can answer that very easily, and will not argue about it another minute.
MR. LOWE: Do you mean to ask, sir, if the men were at their boat­drill stations?
SENATOR SMITH: Yes.
MR. LOWE: No; they were not.
SENATOR SMITH: After you had lowered the lifeboat No. 5, you proceeded to load what boat?
MR. LOWE: No. 3.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you have any difficulty in filling No. 3?
MR. LOWE: Yes, sir; I had difficulty all along. I could not get enough people.
SENATOR SMITH: Did anyone get into either of these lifeboats, No.3 or No. 5, and get out again?
MR. LOWE: I do not remember; I do not think so.
SENATOR SMITH: Did anyone get into either of them who was put out by your order?
MR. LOWE: No.
SENATOR SMITH: Or anybody within your hearing?
MR. LOWE: No.
SENATOR SMITH: Did any women attempt to get in either of these boats and not succeed in getting in?
MR. LOWE: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did any men attempt to and fail to get in?
MR. LOWE: No; not one.
SENATOR SMITH: Or children?
MR. LOWE: No; because we­­­
SENATOR SMITH: Was the conduct of the people when you were loading these boats excited or otherwise?
MR. LOWE: Everything was quite quiet and calm. The only thing ­ and of course you would expect that ­ was that the people were messing up the falls, getting foul of the falls, and I had to halloa a bit to get them off the falls. Everything else went nicely, very nicely; quietly and orderly.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you see families separated?
MR. LOWE: I did.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know who they were?
MR. LOWE: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: Was there anything special that occurred at such times?
MR. LOWE: Well, when I was going in my boat ­ that is, No. 14 ­ do you wish me to go on and tell it?
SENATOR SMITH: No; I am talking about No. 3 and No. 5, when they were being loaded and families were being separated.
MR. LOWE: I did not see any at those boats; no.
SENATOR SMITH: And was there any demonstration?
MR. LOWE: No.
SENATOR SMITH: Everything was quiet?
MR. LOWE: Everything was quiet and orderly.
SENATOR SMITH: Was there any weeping or lamentation?
MR. LOWE: No, not that I heard.
SENATOR SMITH: And with everything quiet and orderly, who selected the persons to fill these boats?
MR. LOWE: Let us see. Mr. Murdock was on No. 5 and No. 3. Then I took one­­
SENATOR SMITH: No, do not get away from these two. I will get to the other later. Was it a part of your duty to select the people who went to get into lifeboat No. 3 and lifeboat No.5?
MR. LOWE: Yes; I aided Mr. Murdock generally, but­­
SENATOR SMITH: What did you do about it yourself? Did you arbitrarily select from the deck?
MR. LOWE: You say "select." There was no such thing as selecting. It was simply the first woman, whether first class, second class, third class, or sixty­seventh class. It was all the same; women and children were first.
SENATOR SMITH: You mean that there was a procession of women­­
MR. LOWE: The first woman was first into the boat, and the second woman was second into the boat, no matter whether she was a first­class passenger or any other class.
SENATOR SMITH: So there was a procession­­
MR. LOWE: A procession at both ends of the boat.
SENATOR SMITH: Coming toward these lifeboats?
MR. LOWE: Yes.
SENATOR SMITH: Did that extend beyond the upper deck?
MR. LOWE: No; no; there were only little knots around the deck, little crowds.
SENATOR SMITH: Now, as they came along, you would pass them one at a time, into the lifeboat? What orders did you have; to pass women and children?
MR. LOWE: I simply shouted, "Women and children first; men stand back."
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know how many women there were on the boat?
MR. LOWE: I do not, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: You put them aboard as they came along, the first being served first?
MR. LOWE: The first, first; second, second.
SENATOR SMITH: Regardless of class?
MR. LOWE: Regardless of class, or nationality, or pedigree.
SENATOR SMITH: If it happened to be a stewardess­­
MR. LOWE: Yes; just the same, if she was a woman.
SENATOR SMITH: Or other women employees?
MR. LOWE: Any women.
SENATOR SMITH: Or passenger; you made no distinction, but put them into the lifeboat?
MR. LOWE: No distinction whatever. Even if we had wished to draw a distinction, to select them, as you might call it, we would not know who were the stewardesses and who were not.
SENATOR SMITH: I have not asked you to into that at all. I think you stated it very clearly, that you took the first woman who came and asked no questions. Now, when you filled lifeboat No. 5, did the women hesitate or demur about going in, or were they anxious to go?
MR. LOWE: Well, I do not remember about that particular boat; but during the course of the evening I distinctly remember saying "One more woman," or "Two more women," or "Three more women," and they would step forward and I would pass them into the boat.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you not ever call for women passengers and not get any?
MR. LOWE: Mr. Murdock said, "That will do," and it was stopped. Then, "Lower away."
SENATOR SMITH: But you feel quite confident that there were 50 people in lifeboat No.­­­
MR. LOWE: (interposing). I do not, sir. I want you to understand that I can not judge with any degree of accuracy how many people there were in it.
SENATOR SMITH: Let it stand that way. We will not talk about it; we will just let it stand that way.
MR. LOWE: That was simply as near as I can judge.
SENATOR SMITH: In loading boat No. 3 did you take the same course?
MR. LOWE: Yes; the same proceedings.
SENATOR SMITH: Did Officer Murdock have charge of that boat?
MR. LOWE: Yes; he was there up to the finishing of No. 3.
SENATOR SMITH: Did Mr. Ismay assist in filling that boat?
MR. LOWE: Yes; he assisted there, too.
SENATOR SMITH: You found him there when you turned from No. 5 to No. 3?
MR. LOWE: He was there, and I distinctly remember seeing him alongside of me ­ that is, by my sidewhen the first detonator went off. I will tell you how I happen to remember it so distinctly. It was because of the flash of the detonator lit up the whole deck. I did not know who Mr. Ismay was then, but I learned afterwards who he was, and he was standing alongside of me.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you say anything to him?
MR. LOWE: I did not.
SENATOR SMITH: You saw him in the flash­­
MR. LOWE: Of the detonator.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you hear what Mr. Boxhall said about firing these rockets?
MR. LOWE: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you hear any such thing?
MR. LOWE: Any what, sir?
SENATOR SMITH: Firing rockets.
MR. LOWE: I am now speaking of it.
SENATOR SMITH: I know you are and that is the reason I am asking you about it.
MR. LOWE: Yes; they were incessantly going off; they were nearly deafening me.
SENATOR SMITH: And you pursued the same course in loading lifeboat No.3?
MR. LOWE: No. 3; yes.
SENATOR SMITH: How many women did lifeboat No. 3 contain?
MR. LOWE: I do not know, sir; I can not say.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know any of them?
MR. LOWE: No, sir; I do not know any of them; not one.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you learned since the boat was filled who any of them were?
MR. LOWE: Since the boat was filled, no; because as you know, one does not seem to be interested in anybody else's boat except his own; and when we were on board the Carpathia I would go around and see ­ well, I don't know. I suppose you might deem them your friends; I suppose you could. They were very suddenly brought together, and all that. I used to go around among them; and I knew my boat crew.
SENATOR SMITH: Yes; that is quite unimportant. I want to get the number of women, if you can tell, who were put into lifeboat No. 3.
MR. LOWE: I can not tell. I do not know.
SENATOR SMITH: Or the number of men?
MR. LOWE: I do not know, sir. I can not tell.
SENATOR SMITH: Or the number of sailors?
MR. LOWE: I know there must have been pretty nearly an equal percentage of men and women in No.3.
SENATOR SMITH: How do you know that?
MR. LOWE: Because there were not many women there.
SENATOR SMITH: Not many women there to respond?
MR. LOWE: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: And so you took men?
MR. LOWE: Yes, sir; so as to get the lifeboats away.
SENATOR SMITH: And you do not know what men were in No. 3?
MR. LOWE: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Were there any officers in it?
MR. LOWE: As I told you before, Mr. Pitman was either in No. 3 or No. 5; which one I do not know.
SENATOR SMITH: But there were no other officers in lifeboat No. 3?
MR. LOWE: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: It was about equally filled with men and women, you say?
MR. LOWE: I should say so.
SENATOR SMITH: Any children in lifeboat No. 3?
MR. LOWE: I do not know; I do not remember.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know whether any of those men who filled lifeboat No.3 were of the crew; or were they passengers?
MR. LOWE: I can not say.
SENATOR SMITH: What is your judgment in regard to that?
MR. LOWE: As far as I know of course I gave preference to the male passengers, I should say, to the passengers rather than the crew. Do you understand me?
SENATOR SMITH: Yes. How many were there in lifeboat No. 3 in your opinion?
MR. LOWE: I do not know, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Was it loaded?
MR. LOWE: She was not very heavily loaded. I should say 40 to 45 maybe. We will say 40.
SENATOR SMITH: The same sized boat as No. 5?
MR. LOWE: The same sized boat, yes.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you have any difficulty in lowering it?
MR. LOWE: No, sir; absolutely none.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you have any difficulty in manning her?
MR. LOWE: No, sir; none.
SENATOR SMITH: How did it happen that you did not put more people into lifeboat No. 3 than 45?
MR. LOWE: There did not seem to be any people there.
SENATOR SMITH: You did not find anybody that wanted to go?
MR. LOWE: Those that were there did not seem to want to go. I hollered out, "Who's next for the boat?" and there was no response.
SENATOR SMITH: Was the top deck crowded?
MR. LOWE: No. There was a little knot of people on the forepart of the gymnasium door.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know whether the staircase was guarded that led up to the top floor?
MR. LOWE: No.
SENATOR SMITH: Were people permitted to roam as they desired over the ship?
MR. LOWE: Everybody was free to go where they wanted to.
SENATOR SMITH: No restraints?
MR. LOWE: No restraint.
SENATOR SMITH: And this applied to crew as well as to passengers?
MR. LOWE: I suppose so.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you hear Maj. Peuchen yesterday say that a large number of the coal stokers came up onto the deck and crowded back the women and a large officer came forward and drove them away?
MR. LOWE: Yes; I heard the major say something to that effect.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you see that?
MR. LOWE: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Was there a large number of the crew, either stokers or otherwise, on the top deck at any time?
MR. LOWE: I think I had four or five firemen in my boat; but I do not remember seeing a crowd of them. I will say that I did not see them.
SENATOR SMITH: Tell me, if you can, how many men there were in lifeboat No. 3.
MR. LOWE: I should say, maybe ­ I don't know ­ about 25.
SENATOR SMITH: Have you ever seen any of them since?
MR. LOWE: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you know any of them at the time?
MR. LOWE: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Then if you loaded lifeboat No. 3 with about 25 men and she contained altogether 45 people, you had 25 men and 20 women?
MR. LOWE: Yes; somewhere along there.
SENATOR SMITH: Now you wish us to understand that there were no women available?
MR. LOWE: Not at that time. Whether there were women there and they would not get into the boat is a different matter. I do not know.
