MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir. What we wanted was the very best ship they could possibly produce.
SENATOR SMITH: You examined this ship, I assume, on the voyage from Liverpool to the place of the accident, from time to time.
MR. ISMAY I was never outside the first­class passenger accommodations on board the ship, sir. I never went in any part of that ship that any other first­class passenger had not a perfect right to go to. I had not made any inspection of the ship at all.
SENATOR SMITH: From that do you wish to be understood as saying that you were not officially on board the ship for the purpose of inspecting?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir; I do not. I was there to inspect the ship and see if there were any defects in her, with the idea of not repeating them in the other ship which we are now building at Belfast.
SENATOR SMITH: You are building another ship of the same type now?
MR. ISMAY: We are now building a sister ship to the Olympic.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you make these observations?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir; I had not been around the ship.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you have it in mind to do so?
MR. ISMAY: Yes. I should have gone around the ship before we arrived in New York.
SENATOR SMITH: Did Mr. Andrews go about the ship?
MR. ISMAY: He was about the ship all the time, I believe.
SENATOR SMITH: Inspecting and examining her?
MR. ISMAY: I think so. Naturally, in a ship of that size, there were a great many minor defects on board the ship, which he was rectifying. I think there were probably three or four apprentices on board from Messrs. Harland & Wolff's shipbuilding yard, who were there to right any small detail which was wrong.
SENATOR SMITH: On the spot?
MR. ISMAY: Yes. A door might jam, or a pipe might burst, or anything like that, and they were there to make it good at once.
SENATOR SMITH: Did Mr. Andrews bring these men for that purpose?
MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you yourself have opportunity to confer with Mr. Andrews during the voyage from Southampton to the place of this accident?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir; I did not. Mr. Andrews dined with me one night. We had no conversation, really, in regard to the ship. Indeed, the only plan which Mr. Andrews submitted to me was a plan where he said he thought the writing room and reading room was unnecessarily large, and he said he saw a way of putting a stateroom in the forward end of it. That was a matter which would have been taken up and thoroughly discussed after we got back to England.
SENATOR SMITH: Were you in conference with the captain during this journey from Southampton?
MR. ISMAY: I was never in the captain's room the whole voyage over, sir, and the captain was never in my room. I never had any conversation with the captain except casual conversations on the deck.
SENATOR SMITH: Were you on the bridge at any time?
MR. ISMAY: I was never on the bridge until after the accident.
SENATOR SMITH: How long after the accident?
MR. ISMAY: I should think it might have been 10 minutes.
SENATOR SMITH: Was the captain there at that time?
MR. ISMAY: The captain was there; yes.
SENATOR SMITH: Was that the only time you saw the captain on the bridge?
MR. ISMAY: I saw him afterwards, when I went up the second time to the bridge.
SENATOR SMITH: How long after?
MR. ISMAY: I should think it might be 35 minutes. It is very difficult to place the time.
SENATOR SMITH: After the impact?
MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: What, if anything, did he say to you about the collision?
MR. ISMAY: The only conversation I had with Capt. Smith was when I went up to the bridge. I asked him what had happened, and he said we had struck ice.
SENATOR SMITH: I believe you said you dined on Sunday evening with the surgeon of the Titanic?
MR. ISMAY: Yes. I was all alone, so I asked Dr. O'Loughlin to come and dine with me, and he dined with me in the restaurant at half­past 7.
SENATOR SMITH: And no other person was present at that table except yourself and him?
MR. ISMAY: No other persons were present excepting the doctor and myself, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did the doctor survive?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know where the captain dined on Sunday evening?
MR. ISMAY: He dined in the restaurant.
SENATOR SMITH: The same place that you dined?
MR. ISMAY: In the same room; yes.
SENATOR SMITH: At the same hour?
MR. ISMAY: I do not know what time he dined. I saw him in the room dining.
SENATOR SMITH: With whom?
MR. ISMAY: I believe he dined with Mr. and Mrs. Widener.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know anyone else who was at the table?
MR. ISMAY: I think Mr. and Mrs. Karger were there, and Mr. and Mrs. Thayer.
SENATOR SMITH: Was Maj. Butt there?
MR. ISMAY: I did not see him. I could not see the whole of the table; I could only see part of it.
SENATOR SMITH: In what part of the dining room were they dining with reference to yourself?
MR. ISMAY: They were dining at the forward end of the restaurant.
SENATOR SMITH: On which side?
MR. ISMAY: The starboard side.
SENATOR SMITH: And you were dining­­­
MR. ISMAY: I was dining in the middle of the room on the same side of the ship. They were dining in an alcove; part of their table was in an alcove. I could not see the whole of their table. In fact, I was sitting with my back toward them
SENATOR SMITH: You dined at half past 7?
MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: How long did you remain at the table?
MR. ISMAY: I should think half or three­quarters of an hour.
SENATOR SMITH: During all that time was the captain at his table?
MR. ISMAY: They were sitting at the table when I went out of the room, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: When, with reference to his time of dining, did you next see the captain?
MR. ISMAY: On the bridge, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: At the time just spoken of?
MR. ISMAY: After the accident.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you dine with the captain at all on the trip from Southampton to the place of the accident?
MR. ISMAY: I think he dined with me on Friday night.
SENATOR SMITH: Is that the only time?
MR. ISMAY: The only time. He left us immediately after dinner. I went into my own room with the people who were dining with me, and we sat in my room and played bridge. But I never saw the captain after we left the restaurant. He never came near my room.
SENATOR SMITH: Had you known the captain of that ship some time?
MR. ISMAY: Yes; I had known him a great many years.
SENATOR SMITH: On what ships of your line had he been captain?
MR. ISMAY: I think he had been commander of a great many of them. The first time I remember Capt. Smith being commander of one of our ships was when he was in command of one of our cargo boats called the Cufic, a great many hears ago. He was in command of the Olympic, he was in the Adriatic, the Baltic, and the old Brittanic. I can not remember them all, sir. We have a record in the office of every ship he has commanded.
SENATOR SMITH: In this journey from Southampton to the place of the accident did he seem to be in good health?
MR. ISMAY: As far as I saw, sir; as far as I was able to judge, at least.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know his age?
MR. ISMAY: I would not like to be absolutely certain about it, but I think he was 62.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you yourself know anything about the construction of vessels; I mean technically?
MR. ISMAY: No; I could not say I do.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know whether the Titanic was classed 100­A according to Lloyd's register?
MR. ISMAY: It was in no class, so far as I know. We never classed any of our boats.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you know whether she was fitted with an inner skin or longitudinal bulkhead between the tank deck and the water line?
MR. ISMAY: She had no midship bulkhead, but she had a double bottom. She had a double bottom fore and aft.
SENATOR SMITH: Fore and aft?
MR. ISMAY: Yes; the whole length of the ship.
SENATOR SMITH: In ordering that vessel, did you give Harland & Wolff any special instructions with reference to her safety?
MR. ISMAY: We were very anxious indeed to have a ship which would float with her two largest water­tight compartments full of water. What we wanted to guard against was any steamer running into the ship and hitting her on a bulkhead, because if the ship ran into her broadside on and happened to her right on a bulkhead, that would open up two big compartments, and we were anxious to guard against the possibility of that happening; and the Olympic and Titanic were so constructed that they would float with the two largest compartments full of water.
SENATOR SMITH: You remember, I think, the statement of the wheelman, Hichens, that the last thing he did before striking the iceberg was to turn his wheel as to avoid contact direct with the bow, the extreme bow?
MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you recall that?
MR. ISMAY: I think he said he was told "Hard aport," and then "Hard astarboard," if I remember rightly.
SENATOR SMITH: And then that threw the vessel­­
MR. ISMAY: [interposing]. He wanted to throw his quarter up.
SENATOR SMITH: Suppose that had not been done, Mr. Ismay, and the ship had met this iceberg bows on; what would have been the effect in your judgment?
MR. ISMAY: It is really impossible to say. It is only a matter of opinion. I think the ship would have crushed her bows in, and might not have sunk.
SENATOR SMITH: She might not have sunk?
MR. ISMAY: She might not have sunk. I think it would have taken a very brave man to have kept his ship going straight on an iceberg. I think he should have endeavored to avoid it.
SENATOR SMITH: What I am getting at is this, whether in the construction of this ship, which was intended for the North Atlantic and in which naturally the designers and builders had planned for such exigencies as might occur off the Grand Banks of Newfoundland, she was built with special reference to her resistance at the bow?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: For that purpose?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir. I think the only ships in which they do that are ships trading to the St. Lawrence. I understand that on the forward end those ships are very often fitted with double plates because they have to go through field ice.
SENATOR SMITH: That has been for the purpose of concentrating sufficient resistance at the bow to stand the brunt of a collision with ice?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir; I think it is done for protection against the field ice.
SENATOR SMITH: Against field ice only?
MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir; at least that is my understanding.
SENATOR SMITH: Do you recollect the captain of the Carpathia saying that if the Titanic had hit this iceberg bows on she would have been in New York Harbor instead of at the bottom of the sea?
MR. ISMAY: I do not remember him saying that, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: From your experience in building ships or in authorizing their construction, and from your knowledge of that profession or trade, would you regard a collision on a bulkhead, opening two compartments, as the most serious damage she was likely to encounter.
MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: And you accordingly provided against that?
MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: There has been considerable confusion about the cost of the Titanic. I will take the liberty of asking you to state it.
MR. ISMAY: She cost $7,500,000, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: And for how much was she insured?
MR. ISMAY: For $5,000,000, I understand, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: Did you have anything to do with the insurance?
MR. ISMAY: No; very little. That is done in New York; that is dealt with and handled in New York.
SENATOR SMITH: I will ask you whether you know of any attempt being made to reinsure any part of the vessel on Monday, the 14th of April?
MR. ISMAY: Absolutely none, sir; and I can not imagine anybody connected with the International Mercantile Marine Co. endeavoring to do such a dishonorable thing.
SENATOR SMITH: I do not want you to understand me to assert that it was attempted.
MR. ISMAY: I know, sir; but it is such a horrible accusation to have been made.
SENATOR SMITH: You would regard it as a very dishonorable thing to do?
MR. ISMAY: It would have been taking advantage of private knowledge which was in my possession; yes, sir. Yes, sir; I should so regard it.
SENATOR SMITH: Was the knowledge of the sinking of the Titanic that was in your possession communicated by you to your company in Liverpool or to your offices in New York on the journey from the place of the collision to New York?
MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir. I sent the messages on Monday morning, very shortly after I got on board the Carpathia. The captain came down to me and said, "Don't you think, sir, you had better send a message to New York, telling them about this accident?" I said, "Yes." I wrote it out on a slip of paper, and I turned to the commander of the Carpathia and I said, "Captain, do you think that is all I can tell them?" He said, "Yes." Then he took it away from the room. I have a copy here, sir, of every Marconi message which I sent away from the Carpathia. I had no communication with any other ship, and there is a record of every message which I received.
SENATOR SMITH: Please read them. This is over your own signature, or your cipher or the cipher or code of your company?
MR. ISMAY: This is a copy of every message that I sent away from the Carpathia. I do not think I have them exactly in the right order, because I put no dates on them; but I have the date here that they were received by Mr. Franklin. The first message I sent was on April 15, which was on Monday morning.
SENATOR SMITH: At what hour?
MR. ISMAY: I have not got the hour, sir, but I should think it was about 8 o'clock.
SENATOR SMITH: You say that shortly after you boarded the Carpathia you sent this message?
MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: You boarded the Carpathia about sunrise?
MR. ISMAY: I think that I boarded the ship Carpathia at a quarter to 6 or a quarter past 6.
SENATOR SMITH: Ship's time?
MR. ISMAY: Yes. I happened to see a clock somewhere on the ship when I got on her.
SENATOR SMITH: Ship's time?
MR. ISMAY: Yes. This is the message I sent, which was received by Mr. Franklin on the 17th of April, 1912. I would like to draw your attention to the fact that I sent the message on the 15th of April, and it did not reach Mr. Franklin until the 17th of April.
SENATOR SMITH: How are you able to say that, Mr. Ismay?
MR. ISMAY: Mr. Franklin has told me so.
SENATOR SMITH: But of your own knowledge you do not know it?
MR. ISMAY: No, sir.
MR. FRANKLIN: The original telegram is there, Senator Smith, with the stamp of the company on the back of it.
MR. ISMAY: I think you have the originals of all of these.
SENATOR SMITH: They are not in evidence?
MR. ISMAY: Yes, sir.
SENATOR SMITH: They were introduced in bulk, were they not?
