Day 015 - 21 Jul 94 - Page 17

     
     1        well agreed that the amount monounsaturated and
              polyunsaturated fat in the diet is about right, and that
     2        the real effort now should be to reduce total fat by
              concentrating on the saturated fat.
     3
         Q.   Right, OK.  So you are saying there were not any
     4        recommendations before the health of the nation white
              paper?
     5        A.  No.  What I said was that the public perception and
              the issues being from a policy point of view had gradually
     6        changed over a period.  There certainly was the NACNE
              Report in 1983 and the COMA Report on diet and
     7        cardiovascular disease in 1984 to bring these issues into
              the public domain.  As a result of that, there were lots
     8        of conferences.  The food industry as a whole was
              beginning to take these issues seriously from that time.
     9        Gradually there has been a build up since.
 
    10   Q.   NACNE is quite a respected body, is it not?
              A.  Yes, and I mean there is no doubt that the publication
         of the NACNE Report in itself did have quite a big impact.
 
    12   Q.   For the record, can you say what NACNE stands for?
              A.  It is, I think to begin with, it was the Advisory
    13        Committee on Nutrition Education, which would reduce to
              ACNE, but they decided to put "national" in front of it,
    14        so it became the National Advisory Committee on Nutrition
              Education.
    15
         Q.   They were making recommendations as long ago as 1983/4?
    16        A.  Yes, I think the significance of the NACNE Report was
              that for the first time the dietary recommendations were
    17        actually given quantitatively.  In other words, we moved
              away from "it would be a good idea to reduce fat" to
    18        saying "we ought to reduce fat by so much".  This was
              reinforced by the COMA Report on diet and cardiovascular
    19        disease which came out about July 1984, if my memory is
              correct.
    20
         Q.   Just going back to McDonald's publications, yesterday you
         were telling us about the limits for sodium?
              A.  The recommendation for sodium?  Are you referring now
    22        to our questioning on the grey book on sodium?
 
    23   Q.   Yes.  Those measurements were given in milligrams, were
              they not?
    24        A.  Some of them were given in milligrams.
 
    25   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Some in grammes.  That is why I could not
              make two paragraphs consistent, then I realised that one 
    26        was in milligrams and the other was in grammes. 
  
    27   MS. STEEL:   OK.  When dietary guidelines are given to ordinary
              people, what are they usually expressed in for sodium?
    28        A.  I think the information that is given on labels would
              be in grammes or milligrams per hundred grammes of food.
    29
         Q.   What about when, say, the Health Education Authority
    30        expresses a point -- advises on limits?
              A.  I can only surmise it would be in either milligrams or