Day 101 - 10 Mar 95 - Page 34

     
     1        chicken had some sensibility for even half a minute after
     2        being decapitated, would he consider that humane; just some
     3        general thing like that.  Then, depending on the answer,
     4        you can see where it takes you and you can look for what
     5        the evidence is as to the chicken's state and develop any
     6        argument you think is justified on the evidence which is
     7        available.  I think Mr. Rampton is right that he is not --
     8        Mr. Kenny, with every respect, is, perhaps, not the person
     9        to be asking about brain death.  Do you want to put a
    10        question like that?
    11
    12   MS. STEEL:   OK.  If a chicken had some sensibility for, say,
    13        ten seconds, would you consider that to be humane after ten
    14        seconds from having its -- from being decapitated?
    15        A.  Obviously, the ideal situation is that the birds are
    16        stunned so they are rendered insensitive to any sort of
    17        pain.  That is not the ideal situation, and it is not
    18        something that I like to see happen; but it does happen
    19        from time to time.  I think the important point is to limit
    20        that to as few number of cases as possible.
    21
    22   Q.   If one per cent are not being stunned before slaughter,
    23        that would be 275,000 chickens used for McDonald's every
    24        year.  Would you find that figure acceptable?
    25        A.  I do not like to see any animal suffer any pain at all.
    26          So, I would much rather see that figure zero.
    27
    28   Q.   When Dr. Gregory visited Sun Valley, Sun Valley were not
    29        complying with the recommendations in the codes of practice
    30        for cutting both carotid arteries; does that concern you?
    31        A.  They were only cutting one carotid artery at the time
    32        of his visit, I understand.  The object of the exercise was
    33        to effectively kill the bird, and that is what they were
    34        doing.  They now cut both carotid arteries, which is a sort
    35        of belt and braces job, if you like.  Certainly the on site
    36        vets and the MAFF officials were perfectly happy with the
    37        method of slaughter as it was.
    38
    39   Q.   He actually says that one of the carotid arteries was cut
    40        in 33 per cent of cases; they were not complying with the
         codes of practice.  Are you saying you find that is
    42        acceptable, McDonald's thinks that is acceptable?
    43        A.  They have changed now and they are cutting both carotid
    44        arteries.
    45
    46   Q.   They have been carrying out this practice for some time
    47        now, have they not?  Had you looked into it before
    48        Dr. Gregory made his visit?
    49        A.  Personally, no, I had not looked into it at all.  I was
    50        happy that the on site vet was happy and that the MAFF 
    51        officials were happy.  Surely, if there was a problem, they 
    52        would have raised that at an earlier stage.  It is an EC 
    53        approved plant as well.
    54
    55   Q.   Yes, but these codes of practice are not enforceable by
    56        law, so there is not any action that they can take, is
    57        there?
    58        A.  Well, exactly, and one of the reasons for the codes of
    59        practice for that specific thing is to ensure that the
    60        birds are killed properly and the people in the position of