Day 103 - 14 Mar 95 - Page 15

     
     1   Q.   How long might it take a chicken to get to that kind of
     2        condition where it has actually keeled over and it is
     3        barely breathing?
     4        A.  It depends entirely on the condition and the
     5        circumstances, and you really cannot give a time.  If they
     6        have got Gumboro disease they die very, very quickly.
     7
     8   Q.   Is it not correct that in actual fact with Gumboro disease
     9        the chickens suffer several days of very obvious illness,
    10        not just a quick -----
    11        A.  Not in my experience.
    12
    13   Q.   I want to turn to another document.  I do not know where
    14        this one would be.  It is in the other bundle.
    15
    16   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  When was that handed in?
    17
    18   MS. STEEL:   Is that No. 15 as well?  It is in the same bundle
    19        we were just looking at.
    20
    MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Identify it.
    22
    23   MS. STEEL:  Poultry Diseases, published 1990.
    24
    25   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  Do you have that?
    26        A.  Yes, I have, yes.
    27
    28   MS. STEEL:  Do you see, if you turn over from the cover and turn
    29        to page 179, in the second paragraph, it says:  "Deaths
    30        occur within two days of the first signs of disease, reach
    31        a peak in two or three more days and rapidly decline so
    32        that the course of the disease is about seven or eight
    33        days", would you accept that?
    34        A.  Yes.
    35
    36   Q.   So the signs are visible?
    37        A.  Not necessarily.  I still stand by what I said before.
    38        They say that deaths occur within two days, the first
    39        signs, but on individual birds, you actually -- the actual
    40        symptoms do not last very long.  They are usually dead
         within a few hours of first showing any symptoms.
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  What are the first signs normally?
    44        A.  Well, maybe we should just distinguish; the signs are
    45        what you notice in the poultry shed like a drop in water
    46        consumption or a drop in feed consumption, which is
    47        something that affects the overall house.  The actual
    48        symptoms are what the individual birds show, like coughing
    49        or sneezing or diarrhoea.  So, that is the distinction.
    50 
    51   Q.   Yes, it is different in veterinary surgery though, but may 
    52        be that is because the bird cannot tell you, whereas the 
    53        human patient very often can anyway?
    54        A.  Yes, well, I use the distinguish in a different way
    55        from human medicine.
    56
    57   Q.   Very well.  So, signs ---
    58        A.  So in this case -----
    59
    60   Q.   -- relate to the flock really like ---