Day 301 - 15 Nov 96 - Page 23

     
     1        better word.  Obviously, inevitably that is going to
     2        include any disadvantaged groups in society who have less
     3        choice even than other people.
     4
     5        McDonald's obviously try to claim this as some kind of
     6        moral high ground in terms of they seem to have this equal
     7        opportunity policy and, as we have heard in any event, the
     8        hierarchy of McDonald's does not represent the make-up of
     9        their staff percentages in terms of women and ethnic
    10        minorities employed on the shop floor.  It does not get
    11        transferred, those same percentages into the higher
    12        positions.
    13
    14        Is there anything that you would like me to help you with
    15        as regards fact and comment?   That was a kind of natural
    16        run through on my feet.
    17
    18   MR. JUSTICE BELL:  No, I think I have taken down a note of the
    19        meaning which you would suggest it bears and which you
    20        would say is defamatory, and at the moment I understand you
         to say that, certainly the part which relates to bad pay
    22        and conditions, that is a general charge which you can
    23        justify by reference to all the evidence about levels of
    24        pay and conditions, including for instance, health and
    25        safety matters which are referred to.  Or, alternatively,
    26        you can defend by saying it is comment and it is fair,
    27        looking at the matters which you have established which are
    28        related in the leaflet or sufficiently referred to,
    29        although that would not in fact include health and safety,
    30        subject to anything that you wish to say to me on that
    31        point of law in due course.  Do you remember the one
    32        I talked about the other day?
    33
    34   MR. MORRIS:   Yes.  I cannot understand the Plaintiffs' meaning,
    35        pay bad wages and provide bad working conditions.  I mean,
    36        what it says is they do badly obviously, in comparison in
    37        terms of pay and conditions.  So it is very much a
    38        comparative point which is only sensible, otherwise it
    39        would be like what a Martian thinks about pay and
    40        conditions, it has to be compared to something else.  This
         is where the-----
    42
    43   MR. JUSTICE BELL:   What I suggest you do is, unless there is
    44        something particular you want to say now, or Ms. Steel does
    45        about that, you go on with what you want to say to me about
    46        the actual facts of the matter, and if you want to come
    47        back to re-visit this, if it is your plan at the end, as
    48        you have indicated, that you hope to discuss the matter
    49        with Ms. Steel and then have a canter through the whole
    50        leaflet saying what you think is comment at the end of your
    51        joint submissions, then you can do that.  But what
    52        I suggest you do now, if it is convenient to you, is go on
    53        with telling me what you suggest the relevant facts are and
    54        point me in the direction of the evidence to support them.
    55
    56   MR. MORRIS:   Right.  OK.  Again, just to refer to Mr. Rampton's
    57        opening speech on how he put over the issue of health and
    58        safety, he says, "Are the Plaintiffs' policies and
    59        practices in relation to the health and safety of their
    60        employees open to serious criticism?"  And again, we would