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to license it to anybody who felt that they had a need
for it, and if they refused such a license, it wouid then
be stripped of its copyright protection. That's because
Japan feels that it has a strong competitive advantage in
che manuFacture and sale of hardware, bur ~hey feel like
chey're years behind in the development of software,
and frankly what they really wanted to do WaS strip the
advantage that other nations had in the development of
software from them so tbat they couid rake it if they
wanted to use it.
The dissennination of informanon as a free object is a
vvorthy goal, it's che way most of us learned in ehe first
place But the truch of the matter is, what people are
doing has more and more commercial value and if there's
any vvay for people to make money off of it, somebody's
gonna uy to get an angle on it. So I chink that it ought
to be up to the people who design the product whether
or not they want to give it avvay or sell it. It's their
product and it shouid be a personal decision.
BILL ATKINSON tauthor of MACPAINT, the landmark
groph~ies progrom on the Macintosh): Sometimes it's not
even money. When I was ~vorking on QUICKDRAW I
came across some improvements, rezi good algoritUms,
that l'd never seen before that I would love to tell lots
of people about. because I think they're really neat
hacks. And yet, I want to see Apple araund in twenty
years. It's not money for me; theyrre not paying me
money to not talk about QUICKDRAW. I jusr know
there's something there that gives Plac an advantage
over an IBM PC and I don't really want to see IBM
rip off QUICKDRAW. I don't. (oppbuSe)
ANDREW FL1JEGELMAN: The problem is jost dis-
tr~bution. There's been no thing on Earth so easy to
distribute to poople as software. The reason tbet we
gO OUt and pay five or ten or twenty thousand dollars
for a car is berause you need a key to dnve it and it's
usually sitting behind a fence at the dealer's showroom.
The hct is that no matter how hard we work on some-
thing, how n~uch inspiration or insight we put into it,
Hackers
. _~
=m
~-. ~
~ ~Y~= ~
~ ─
F~^ ``When I was working on QUICKDRAW I came across some
improvements, real good algorithms, that I wouid love to tell lots
of poople about, because I think they're really neat hacks. And yet,
51 I want to see Apple around in 20 years. I just know there's some-
thing there that g'.ves Mac an advaneage over an IBh1 PC and I
- don'e really want to see IBM rip off QUICKDRAW. I don't."
~~ - __~: ~_ _ - .
~ ~ -;~t, L'_ ;~,
~ ~ __'
F. ~ (,
once ic's completed, in ~he medium in which we work,
it's a trivial marter to make a perfect copy and give it
to anybody in the world, instantly. That's what's been
chaltenging us. It has nothing to do wieh whether it's
easier or harder co make cars or write programs.
TEC) KAEHLER (programmer at Xerox PARC─Palo Alto
Reseorch Center) Do you think it's reasonable, thraugh
the scheme you're using to support Freeware, tbat
everyone in chis roem couid be making a living tbat way7
FWEGELb1ANI I reaily don'r know. I did it just as a
giggie. The reason I srarted ~vas because l'd finishad this
program, I was gonna send it out, and I knew that I
didn't have a prayer of coming up with a copy-protection
scheme tbat some kid in San Diego wasn't genna break
the first night, 50 I figured i've gotta work with the
system somebow.
KAEHLER: You must know sornething about whether
or not this many people could be doing tbat.
FLUEGELMAN: I think maybe, if a lot of people were
willing to put out what I would call fnlly supported pro-
grams. That means not jost something tbet gets the job
done for you, which is wha: I did in the first round, but
one that is error-uapped, diat is documented, tbet is
supported, tbat looks like it's been given all those tra~
pings of velue. Then maybe you can appeal to people's
sense of value and they'll contribute for it. It's wc~rked
for me. I know it's worked for Bob and for a few others.
DOUG GARR journalist from Omni): Could you tell us
how the economics of Freeware vvorks7
FLUEGELMAhl. I send out the program and I ask for
a $35 contriLution, which for a progrum of its type
man' people say is one-fifth the cost of what t;hey'd
expect to spend commercially. So it's a bargain to begin
with. I encou.~ge people to make copies. I try and dis-
cou.~-age people from re-selling the p ogram and large
corpo~tions Irom making thousands of copies. I tell
poople tbet whether they liked it or not' give it tro a
friend and i~ their friend likes it '.hen maybe they'll send
me some money. I wouid guess tbat about one-tenth of
th`~poople who are using the pr=gram now have paid
for it, and there are a lot of commercial software
companies that cen'~; make that claim. (hagt~terj
STEVEN LEVY: There's someone hex who's suppo.~-
ing a program that doesn~t ask for money. Dennis
Broche.~, do you want to tell us about MACTEP
and what you've done thex?
D~NNIS BROTHERS: It s kind of a strange situation. I
wrote it for my own use. I needed a communica~tions
program for ~he Macinto~. so I w`.-ote it' and it ';urned
out to be something that a lot of other people wanted
as well. It's very primitive, ve~y c.~-ude, compared to
PC-TALK, bur it was die right place and t.~e right time,
and there was tremendous response for it. I'm kicking
myself a .ittle now; maybe I shouid have put a littie
message in there: "Please send 35 bucks." ~'1aughter;
F.~EGEL,'~1AI~I: I just want to know: How many poople
in this room ax using Dennis~s program and wouid send
him some money for it? I wouid
VOICE: Why don't you ask it as two questions'
(laughter)
FlldEGELMAN: No, it's a compound question.
BROTHERS: It is not a high enough quality program,
in my estimation, to wa.~nt tbat. And I don't have the
ume to put into it to bring it up to the level of PC-
TALK where I believe it wouid be wo.~h tbat kind
of contwiburion.
ART KLEINER (telecommualcau'ons ditor fw Whole
Earth Software Ca~atog and Whole Ear~h Review): You
had time to hang out on Compuserve Inetworkl and
answer peeple's questions. though.
BR3THERS: Yeah, but that's more for t~he fun of it. I
don': have any better luck explaining this to m~ wife
than explaining it eo you guys. (.aughterj Someda' I
may make most of my income off that program and its
derivatives and reLated things, but today my prima.'y
bus~ness is completely unxlated to tbat, and I just don't
The founding text
for the Hackers'
Conference was
Steven Levy's
Hacker5 (1984;
456 pp.; 117. 95
[rom Doubledüy
and Company, 501
Fronklin Ave.,
Garden City, NY
.~1530, or Com-
puter LiteraCy,~.
Levy does for computerS what Tom
Wolfe did for space WidT The Right
Stuff. Both are behind-the-srenes
tales of elite othletes pursuing potent
new technologies; both ore vividly
written; both are inspiring.
The very structure of the book was
the occosion {or the Conference. Levy
chronicIes töree generations of hackers
─the mini-computer all-night coders
ot MlT and Stanford in the '60s, the
hardware .hackers aroun.d the Home-
brew Computer Clu.b wha marfe 2he
first personal computers in the mid-
'705, ond t.he myrind home-grown
programmers on those computers as
soOn as they hit the market, who gave
us the goloxy of conSumer softwore
from VISICALC to CHOPLIFTER. fn
the succession of generobons Levy
portrays a gradual degroding, com-
mertiolizing of the Hocker Etbic.
Th.e Hockers' Conference was cafkd
to lain the täree generations fior the
pr5t b'me to see if they had onything
to sey to eoch other, and to see where
the Hacker E2hiC reolly was after
years of stress in the boom-and-bust
computer business. "[ach generät.~'on,"
remarked conference co-desigr~er Lee
Fefsenstein, "has suffered an intusion
of Big Money. ft may be ;nteres2.'ng
for them to compare how they've
dealt with tbat." ─SB
-